doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Why don't shotguns ring chambers?

Europe was not called "EUROPE" until the 8th century, well after the Roman Empire ended in 476 A.D.. Therefore, subjects of the Western Roman Empire were not Europeans. I've been patiently waiting to set the hook on that one, and all it took was a little twitch of the lure to get the brain-dead fish to bite.

He/she who does not learn from history is doomed to be a complete idiot, and you are a perfect example Queen Stevie. I guess you are all done with claiming I don't know the difference between flower foam and backer rod... and still in full coward estrogen melt-down mode. I love it!

Are you thinking of BP silhouette, not schuetzen? The only schuetzen I am familiar with is the ASSRA sanctioned 100 and 200 yard matches where the groove diameter tops out at .321 with a rare occasional exception.

I was referring to the big fixed load long range rifles, as you mentioned possibly .375�s, but more likely the .410s and .458s. It is not fun at all to breech seat using black powder. I haven�t done much of it, but the residue just forward of the case is a pain as it builds.

No, I meant what I said. We shoot a lot of it in Iowa, especially the east coast, where Schuetzen has been around longer than any other shooting sport and we argue with Texas about the longest, continually operational Schuetzen club. We don't top out at .32, we start there and that is quite common where BP is used. We use smokeless too, but true to the sport, BP is always part of the game.

.375s do not, a long range rifle, make. They mostly suck at midrange too, and are rarely used in silhouette well (unless your name is Rick Moritz). Few shoot .40s at long range (and almost never .410s) and very, very rarely do they do well. Most of us shoot .45s, muzzle or breech.

If it is not fun to breach seat blackpowder, that's just your spin on it. For a lot of us it is a lot more fun because it is a lot more traditional and challenging. I've done it a lot. My first serious shooting sport was Schuetzen, though now I shoot mostly BPCR/BPTR and USIMLT Creedmoor wherever they are shot.

Fair enough.

Only curious, which traditional 45's cartridges do you folks shoot, breech seated, swiss butt plates, off hand?

I believe you, it would just be absolute torture to shoot a 'long for bore' 45-70, knowing you can not really down load black powder, and all at only 100 or 200 yard targets for score.

No fair mentioning muzzle loading, but that may be a bit different than pure breech seating, but again fair enough. I have felt a seater start to get inconsistent, never fired for score in competition, but I didn't care for what I percieved as inconsistency.

.408, .409, .410 take your pick, but I think 40 is a misnomer just as 45 is. In the long range matches that I am familiar with, the 38s and 40s are definitely well represted at long range, but the 45s are the default safe picks. Ouch, a well built 38-50RH sucks at mid range? You folks are a tough crowd.

Mostly .45-70, but also .45-90 and .45-100. Most Schuetzen is benchrest these days, but there are always a couple offhand events. Most of my guns are BPCR legal, so no Swiss plates. I have a .38-55 Borchard in a Helm configuration, so that one has a hooked buttplate, which is very difficult to shoot off bench of course.

The .40s really are .400/.408 most of the time. .45s are .450/.458. Calling them by their groove diameters seems odd since at least I use land diameter bullets.

It is VERY rare to see a .40 at a long-range match. .38s, maybe one time I have seen one. I have a .38-72, which I would never use for long range.

You just aren't very familiar with long and midrange competition apparently. .40s only make a sizable dent in BPCR and then, it is still is second fiddle to .45s. .38s are way down the list at BPCR. Only one person has notable success with a.38-50 and that's Moritz. He has won the Championship twice or three times with it, but no one else can crack the top ten.

You know Brently I had you figured for a Shitzen....

Brent,
Do you know Jack Odor?

Certainly. I know him fairly well. He grew up in Webster City Iowa, about 20 miles north of me.

Good guy, great shooter. I do a bit of work for Jack and have hunted with him. His house is like a tour through a B&C record book. The Elk he shot last year was so big they had to cut a larger entry way in the place to get the mount in. Small world.

I would love to see his home. I know he hunts, but he is also a pretty serious butterfly collector. Definitely a great shot and an interesting guy. Did you do the smithing for his rifle sights? I wonder if his hunting rifles are set up like his target guns?

I usually see him ever year at Raton. But not this year of course.