May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31
Who's Online Now
3 members (dbh1956, SKB, Wild Skies), 77 guests, and 5 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics36,948
Posts518,493
Members14,174
Most Online462
Aug 5th, 2016
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
#576516 07/27/20 07:41 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,029
Likes: 5
Tamid Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,029
Likes: 5
I purchased a bottle of Japan dryer about 12 - 15 years ago. Just now I am trying it in a solution of linseed oil, spar varnish and turpentine. The solution will not set and harden properly. Its taken over a month for the last coat to set and it is still a bit sticky to the touch.

I overdosed a solution to see if I could get it to solidify and it is still liquid after a few days.

The question is does Japan dryer degrade over time? Based on the way the chemical reaction is supposed to act I hadn't thought so.


Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
Tamid #576517 07/27/20 07:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,171
Likes: 26
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,171
Likes: 26
https://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/crown-japan-drier

Use this product with oil-based paints, oil-based enamels and varnishes

https://www.tinboats.net/varnish-vs-polyurethane/

Japan Drier is a common drying agent that can be mixed with other oils such as boiled linseed oil and alkyd resin paints and varnishes to speed up the “drying” or “curing” process. It’s also used by professionals to speed up controlled drying when they need to apply several coats on the same day. Japan Drier is a special blend of lead-free drying agents that accelerate the drying ability of oil-based paint, enamels, varnish, and polyurethane. It is especially effective in highly humid or cool weather conditions. Although Japan Drier may appear purple, it will not affect the color of your coating. (varnish or paint). Normally, one ounce of Japan Dryer per quart of paint or varnish and mix thoroughly. Do not exceed 4 ounces per gallon.

Last edited by skeettx; 07/27/20 08:02 PM.


USAF RET 1971-95
Tamid #576521 07/27/20 08:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,691
Likes: 52
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,691
Likes: 52
Try using mineral spirits instead of turpentine. These combinations don't always work out the way they should. And you are using boiled linseed, not raw?
JR


Be strong, be of good courage.
God bless America, long live the Republic.
Tamid #576526 07/27/20 09:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,384
Likes: 16
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,384
Likes: 16
Use boiled linseed, as Roberts suggested. If you want a slightly hotter mix, substitute some VM&P Naptha for the mineral spirits. I always have at least a little turps in my mix, because the smell makes me think I’m doing a better job.

Also, be careful which spar var you use. The low VOC enviro friendly products are mostly crap. Example: McCloskey Spar Var in the brown can used to be my favorite, but when they switched to the new formulation in the green can, I had to stop using it. Would not polymerize properly.

Last edited by Replacement; 07/27/20 09:05 PM.
Tamid #576537 07/27/20 11:29 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,029
Likes: 5
Tamid Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,029
Likes: 5
The bottle says Alkali Refined Linseed Oil purchased from a fine arts store and doesn't mentioned boiled so that may be the problem. If I were to substitute tung oil for linseed oil do I need to pay attention to how the tung oil is processed? The spar varnish I used is Old Masters exterior oil based spar-marine-varnish, so should be fine there. I mixed my Japan dryer as per instructions on the bottle which was 28ml per 4 litre which reduced down to 1/4 tsp per 4 tsp of solution.


Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
Tamid #576540 07/28/20 12:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 47
Likes: 1
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 47
Likes: 1
If the finish is still tacky after a month, the first thing to do is strip the finish off to start over, something is really wrong.

The thinner you use shouldn't matter, it should have flashed off in a day or less, wiping varnishes are thin.

The oil could be a problem, but I doubt it, call the artist store and ask them how quickly the oil should dry. I suspect that stuff is pretty expensive, personally, I wouldn't spend the money on it, or the hardware store oil either. The best linseed oil I've used is Tried and True, there are no driers in it and its put through a heating/polymerization process.

I suspect the problem is the varnish. Brush some varnish on some scrap wood and see how long it takes to dry, the label will tell you what to expect, if its taking longer, buy a new can, and check the date.

Tim

Tamid #576548 07/28/20 09:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,890
Likes: 45
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,890
Likes: 45
I only use Linspeed, which has been around gun work a long time. Pure linseed oil and never a drying problem. Perfect finishes, fast drying, and thin as desired with mineral spirits. Nothing better.


It ain't whether you hit a bird that matters, it's the fun you have even if you don't.
Joe Wood #576550 07/28/20 09:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 364
Likes: 19
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 364
Likes: 19
I've wondered about GB Linspeed. The SDS suggests that it's about 50% petroluem distillates. Does that just mean that it's thinned in mineral spirits?

On the Japan Drier, I bought some from an art store. It was very viscous and the same color as linseed oil. It is cobalt based. Sounds very different than what is bought at the hardware store. Anyone have experience using this type of drier?

It's something like this.
Link to product


Jim
Tamid #576552 07/28/20 10:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,746
Likes: 43
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,746
Likes: 43
IMO You have too much oil (linseed) in the mix for it to dry in a reasonable time.
You may have applied it too heavily also.

Linseed coatings need to be ultra thin to get them to set-up.

Smear a coating of the same thickness as you put on the stock onto a clean glass jar surface when you are doing a stock.
Leave the stock alone to 'dry'. Check the smear on the glass jar surface to see when it's hardened.
If it isn't set up on the glass surface,,it won't be in or on the wood either.

The Spar Varnish is already a linseed based varnish with a + amt of oil in it to keep the final set finish somewhat flexible to withstand outside weather. That's where the name Spar comes from,,boating use. But it's been used pretty loosely over the years to market as some sort or extra special varnish.

Then you've added more linseed oil to it.

All that oil in the mix with what little resin in the SparVarnish orig make up is what you have made as your Varnish finish.

The turp or or paint thinner is nothing more than to mix and thin the above components. It evaporates from the mix as it sets on/in the wood. It does help with some penetration into the wood due to thinning.

Linseed does take a while to harden. It oxidizes to harden, it doesn't just air dry like we think of most paint products doing.

I'd skip the extra linseed oil. Use the Spar Varnish or any decent varnish by itself. Thin it with min spirits if you like for easier handling like sanded in finish.

Thinned with min spirits (petroleum distillates!) and you have what about what is sold as Wiping Varnishes in the DIY finishing depts of Home Depot ect.
They are around 75% min spirits, 25% varnish.
The varnish portion will be the oil (linseed, tung, or perhaps another plant oil) and an resin,,either natural or man-made.

The different ratio of oil content in the varnish makes them more or less suitible for outdoor use over indoor use.
That's were you get into the differences in Long Oil Varnishes and Short Oil Varnishes,

Linspeed Oil and Tru-Oil are nothing more than Linseed oil based varnished using synthetic resins (alkyds) instead of natural resins.
Along with that there are dryers in them, synthetic also as the old Japan Dryers were lead compounds and taken off the market.

Tamid #576553 07/28/20 10:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,384
Likes: 16
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,384
Likes: 16
I just looked up the Old Masters spar on their website, and they show max VOC of 350 gpl. That’s pretty low and could be part of your problem. The old school spars were about 575 gpl, but that stuff is getting hard to find. If you must work with low VOC product, plan on thinner coats and more of them, wiping off almost everything you apply. Get some naptha.

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2022 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.059s Queries: 35 (0.030s) Memory: 0.8521 MB (Peak: 1.8990 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2022-05-22 11:33:46 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS