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Here is another example of manufacturer's marking longer than normal chambers.

Last edited by Toby Barclay; 07/10/20 02:45 PM.
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Toby, my apologies to all, if my earlier post was construed as the gun having been proofed under 1875 Rules, as that was not intended.

Anyway, to avoid the apples&oranges conundrum, the "facts" laid before us by OP :
1. chambers might be 2 3/4" (but could be 2 5/8 - 7/8" ?)
2. heavy gun
3. cylinder barrels (.727 "straight thru'")
4. presume to have been Proofed under 1868 Rules.

The likelihood is that it was built for use of "ball and shot"....and not as Trap/Wildfowl gun.

Of course this suggestion has the usual caveats that bores are "as original", etc, etc. Supporting this suggestion would be that many shotguns imported to N A were intended for use on larger game in addition to birds. Also that this contention is not being substantiated by citing of post 1880 trap shooting reports, the products of "gunmaking" firms not existing at the 1872 date relating to the gun's serial no. and so forth.

Toby, that was an interesting picture of Whitworth barrels. Would you happen to know in what year the gun trade started to use Sir Joseph's steel in barrel manufacture?

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Drew and Toby, those are nice clear marks. My example is a very small mark best viewed in a good light with a magnifying glass!

Had a look at a book I have that is a biography of Sir Joseph Whitworth by Norman Atkinson. Had a good but quick look through but only found reference to the fact that he was supplying guns for the American Civil War as the earliest reference. I tried to find reference to the use of the 'Wheatsheaf' Trade Mark but without success.

Another book I have on him; 'Joseph Whitworth. Toolmaker' by Terence Kilburn lists his patents. Patent No.3062 of 1874 for Compressing fluid metal may refer to his sporting gun barrel steel. He has one for Breech loading firearms and cartridges; Patent No. 963 of 1867. He was by all accounts a Mechanical Genius but a right old misery and a tyrant with his workforce. Lagopus…..

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I am doing my best to post some pics, this is all I could get to work. The gun is presently under restoration in my shop.
There is a very faint E.W.H on the left tube. if you click on the pics they will enlarge.




Last edited by tigertrout; 07/11/20 11:41 AM.
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We're getting OT but this is my short version for Sir Joseph's shotgun barrels

Sir Joseph Whitworth's adaptation of Bessemer's principle of hydraulic pressure casting was patented in 1874. The primary advantage of the “fluid compression” process was uniformity, and the absence of porosity and voids.

https://shotguncollector.com/2017/06/21/the-beginning-of-the-steel-age/

Sir Joseph Whitworth, Miscellaneous Papers on Mechanical Subjects: Guns and Steel, 1873
https://archive.org/details/miscellaneouspa02whitgoog
On p. 18 Whitworth states that the tensile strength of No. 1 Red Gun Barrel steel is 40 tons/89,600 psi, the same number claimed by Henry Bessemer. No mention is made of carbon content or composition.

The Mechanical and Other Properties of Iron and Steel in Connection with Their Chemical Composition, 1891, reported Whitworth “Gun Steel” as .30 - .42% carbon and .24 - .31% manganese.
For comparison, Vickers was .24 - .27% carbon and .22% manganese; Krupp .46 - .52% carbon and .07 - .13% manganese.
https://books.google.com/books?id=-c8xAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA196&dq

Wm. Powell & Son used Whitworth steel for barrels in 1875. The first Purdey Pair Nos. 10614 & 10615 were delivered January 1, 1880 with the “New Whitworth Fluid Pressed Steel”.
Lefever Arms Co. was the first U.S. maker to supply Whitworth steel for their Optimus in 1887. Parker Bros. used Whitworth for the first AAH Pigeon Gun in 1894 SN 79964 delivered to Capt. Du Bray. Hunter Arms first offered Whitworth on the Monogram, A2, and A3 in 1895.

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Thank you Drew for that information. Much appreciated.

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Recoloured action.
Barrels original proof mark 13, worn brown.
Barrels now .727 = .001- .002 just below out of proof.
Anything else to add, tiger ?

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Drew, I found an earlier reference to the use of Whitworth barrels. Lord Walsingham records using a Purdey in 1872 with Whitworth barrels but had Purdeys replace them with Damascus tubes as he didn't like the sound they made when fired. Lagopus…..

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Yes, here it is
“Hit and Miss” in Experts on Guns and Shooting, G.T. Teasdale-Buckell, 1900
http://books.google.com/books?id=4xRmHkr7Lp8C

https://books.google.com/books?id=4xRmHkr7Lp8C&pg=PA175&source
Lord Walsingham himself recollected: “On August 30, when I killed 1,070 grouse to my own gun in the day, I shot with four breechloaders. No.1, a gun made in 1866 by Purdey, subsequently converted from pin-fire to central principle, to which new barrels were made last year. Nos.2 and 3, a pair of central fire breechloaders, made also by Purdey, about 1870, for which I have likewise had new barrels. No.4, a new gun made by Purdey this year to match the two mentioned above, but with Whitworth steel instead of Damascus barrels. The guns are all 12 bore, with cylinder 30 in. barrels, not choked.”
“My cartridges were loaded by Johnson, of Swaffham; those used in the down-wind drives containing 3 1/8 drs. Hall’s Field B powder to 1 1/8ozs. No. 5 Derby shot; those used in the up-wind drives (where the birds, of course, came slower) had 3 drs. only of the same powder, with the same shot; not hardened shot in either case.”
“I find I never go out shooting without learning something. If I had the day again, I should cut off the extra eighth of an ounce of shot, not on account of recoil or discomfort of kind – from which I never suffer, although always using black powder – but because I failed to get as much penetration at long distances as I do with an ounce only. I distinctly remember firing three barrels at one bird, striking well in the body every time, but killing dead only with the last shot; the powder seemed to burn too slow.”
“Another thing I learned was that Whitworth steel barrels are not desirable for a heavy day’s shooting. The explosion in them makes quite a different sound from that given off by Damascus barrels: there is more ring about it, and I can imagine that this might prove a serious annoyance to anyone who minds the noise of shooting. I have no recollection myself of ever having had a headache from gun-firing. Moreover, the Whitworth barrels become hot much more rapidly than the Damascus; and this is a serious drawback, especially to a man who shoots without gloves. I can well imagine that they last much longer, and are in many ways suited for ordinary light work; but am now replacing them with Damascus, as in all my other guns.”

The 1880 date came from David Trevallion. Walsingham's 1870 Purdey would be 4 years before Whitworth patented the process.

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I believe this is Bro. Robertovich's site
https://shotguncollector.com/2017/06/21/the-beginning-of-the-steel-age/
Whitworth was involved in military arms as early as 1854.

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