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#569259 - 04/08/20 10:23 AM OT: blackpowder weaponry
Lloyd3 Offline
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Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 1915
Loc: Parker, Colorado
Being "locked-down" for an extended period has an interesting effect on folks. I have cast about here for projects to pursue and have stayed fairly busy on everything from old car maintenance to yard and housework. When not otherwise busied, I'm researching different topics to see what I might have overlooked in my steady pursuit of the almighty dollar over the years.

Something that caught my eye recently is the reproduction industry for Civil War era weaponry. It is largely focused in Italy and it seems that they've been steadily been working away (for some time now) at re-creating the now-obscure handguns and rifles of that era. Their efforts have gotten to the point of producing very-good, functioning copies of the better firearm designs from that period. Since all the weapons then were black-powder, their efforts have gone largely unregulated by the government types, as such weapons are considered "non-firearms" for any legal purposes. These reproductions are of-course made with modern steels and manufacturing techniques and can, in reality, be very good firearms. In many ways, they are significant improvements in quality (w/far-stronger steels & much better tolerances) over the ancient Colts, Remingtons and Winchesters they were intended to copy. They are also largely dirt cheap(!). An industry blossomed just after the Civil War ended (and during the later 1870s and 1880s) that allowed for the use of the then newly-invented "metallic" cartridges by boring through the cylinders of the revolvers of that time and converting them to fire said cartridges. It would seem that such an industry still exists, even to this day (look up Taylor and Company sometime). If you've been raised on a steady diet of movies dated from that period, you're more-than familiar with the genre and may even have a passing interest in such things. No background check is necessary (a big plus in modern-day Colorado) and shipping can be done to your door (unless you live in the usually-suspect places, such as NYC, DC and LA).


Edited by Lloyd3 (04/08/20 10:32 AM)

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#569262 - 04/08/20 11:07 AM Re: OT: blackpowder weaponry [Re: Lloyd3]
craigd Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 6583
If a muzzleloader is converted to metallic cartridge, particularly a chambering that has ammo generally available today, does that get into a manufacturing gray area? Iíve been able to do a fair bit of range time and varmint shooting, and have the bonus of more time with one of my kids. Silver lining. It has been disappointing that I donít have access to some projects and tools due to circumstances, and as things blow over regular life will kick back in and free time will will probably get scarce again.

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#569263 - 04/08/20 11:38 AM Re: OT: blackpowder weaponry [Re: craigd]
SKB Offline
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Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 5272
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: craigd
If a muzzleloader is converted to metallic cartridge, particularly a chambering that has ammo generally available today, does that get into a manufacturing gray area? Iíve been able to do a fair bit of range time and varmint shooting, and have the bonus of more time with one of my kids. Silver lining. It has been disappointing that I donít have access to some projects and tools due to circumstances, and as things blow over regular life will kick back in and free time will will probably get scarce again.


as far as Federal law is concerned, the ONLY factor that matters is when the receiver was made. If you convert a muzzleloader using a post 1898 action it becomes a firearm, pre-1898 actions no matter the chambering are antiques and not classified as firearms Federally. Some States such as New Jersey differ.
_________________________
http://www.bertramandco.com/

ACGG Professional metalsmith, firearms import services.

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#569266 - 04/08/20 12:11 PM Re: OT: blackpowder weaponry [Re: Lloyd3]
Argo44 Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 02/21/16
Posts: 1560
Loc: McLean, Virginia
I've found this forum to be very active and very helpful.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com
_________________________
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch

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#569267 - 04/08/20 12:18 PM Re: OT: blackpowder weaponry [Re: Lloyd3]
ClapperZapper Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 2113
Loc: Great Lakes region
Most of my experience with the Alberto crowd stems from Some of them being convicted felons.

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#569273 - 04/08/20 02:43 PM Re: OT: blackpowder weaponry [Re: Lloyd3]
gunsaholic Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 1043
Loc: Canada
I've got "a thing" for muzzleloaders and have many reproductions. Many of them are indeed well made weapons.

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#569276 - 04/08/20 04:17 PM Re: OT: blackpowder weaponry [Re: Lloyd3]
Paul Harm Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 1745
Loc: attica , mi
I've shot and made them for over 30 years, then about 15 years ago backed off a little. Sold the tee-pee and stopped doing over night rendezvous. Got into old SxSs - Remingtons, Parkers, and a Lefever or two. You'll want to buy the revolver and have it shipped separate from any cartridge cylinder to be legal. I was laid up from a back operation a couple of years ago and the bug bit me again. I use to shoot the Remington New Model Army in competition so naturally that's what caught my eye on the internet. I bought two engraved ones, one nickel plated and one blued with the 8" barrels, two with 12" barrels - one steel and one brass framed, and the revolver carbine. That carbine always looked kool. Yes they're nice looking and accurate. I still look at a rifle or two, but haven't pulled the trigger.

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#569286 - 04/08/20 05:39 PM Re: OT: blackpowder weaponry [Re: Lloyd3]
Gregdownunder Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 10/09/03
Posts: 631
Loc: New Zealand
I had a euroarms copy of the Rogers and Spencer and it shot well enough.
I also have two Italian Uberti "peacemakers" in 44/40 which, while needing a complete strip and polish of the internals, are pretty solid functioning pistols.
I've owned a bunch of various Italian made muzzle-loading rifles, some of which were pretty accurate. I think the pedersoli are probably the pick of the mainstream manufacturers.
There is no doubt the fit and finish cannot be compared to a quality original, but they could never afford to put that much time into it and produce a marketable product.
My favourite's however have been the English Parker Hale Enfields, I've owned all of them other than the volunteer and all have been well made and accurate.
Currently I shoot an original two band volunteer circa 1859.
Am tempted to take that one out during the roar.....

GDU

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#569305 - 04/08/20 09:49 PM Re: OT: blackpowder weaponry [Re: Lloyd3]
2-piper Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 12743
Loc: Lynchburg TN
In percussion revolvers, I have stayed with Colt. I have a .36 caliber Texas Patterson, .44 cal Walker, 1849 .31 cal pocked model, .44 cal 1860 Army, .36 cal1861 Navy & an 1873 45 Colt SAA. All of these were made by either Uberti or Pietta. A former co-worker of mine had a first-generation Colt SAA & we compared my Uberti with it. The difference in the smoothness of action was virtually non-existent. I had bought mine on sale from Cabellas at Dealer price for about $100.00 as I had an FFL at the time. Muzzle Energy notwithstanding, don't believe it when someone tries to tell you a .22 LR is more powerful than the .31 cal Colt pocket model.
_________________________
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra

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#569381 - 04/09/20 07:36 PM Re: OT: blackpowder weaponry [Re: 2-piper]
CJF Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 146
Loc: North Carolina
I've enjoyed muzzle loaders off and on since I got my first one, a CVA 1851 Navy kit, from Target, when I was 18. That was a long time ago. They're fun and make understanding the mechanics easy, as well as teaching you about metal and wood finishing.

Re converting to cartridges, you can make a gun for yourself (here in the USA), so long as what you make is not a National Firearms Act (NFA) restricted gun (so no full auto, no rifle barrels shorter than 16" and no shotgun barrels shorter than 18".) The NFA doesn't restrict capacity, just the above. What you can't do is make a gun and sell it...or at least not repeatedly, as that requires an FFL for manufacture. But personal use is OK. This is why folks make their own ARs and Glocks using 80% receivers.

edit - I'm confident in the above but I'm not a lawyer, and my only FFL is a C&R.


Edited by CJF (04/09/20 07:37 PM)

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