doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Henry rifling A&T Patent Use #'s

I've got about 120 days of anti-malaria pills saved up from recent trips to Africa. Unfortunately it's Doxycycline. According to my doctor Daughter-in-law, Doxy is not the same thing as Chloroquine and operates in a different way. chloroquine was the weekly pill we called in Vietnam "the Monday night bad dreams" pill.

Not too many cases in N.Va...the government is locked down. DC is totally locked down. Va has most restaurants in NoVa closed. But gun shops are open.

The whole way a tube/barrel makers operated in cooperation with the gun maker is still confusing. David Trevallion suggest reading the books written by David Baker and Ian Crudgington to further educate myself. (I've got enough books from a dozen different subjects; I won't be chasing this hobby as hard - and prefer some knowledgeable and articulate poster here to educate me....short words please.).

You got that right. My wife took that for 2 years with the same effect. That stuff is mean. That is why Dr. Presscott pushed me over to Primaquine - Baird.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

You seem to give these hobbies a pretty good go. There can be a whole lot worse suggested reading, and also throw in a copy of Shotgun Technicana.

Alexander Henry .450 single barrel breech-loader rifle. completed on the 7th July 1879. Henry Patent A&T use #4606.... This use # is also way outside of the graphed curve. Frustrating. A&T though did build single barrels as postulated.
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=A0320++++746+&refno=++147808

So were the A&T single tubes attached to a scattergun tube?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

ALEXR. HENRY
A .450 (3 1/4IN.) BLACK POWDER EXPRESS SINGLE-BARRELLED ROTARY-UNDERLEVER HAMMER RIFLE, serial no. 4645,
28in. bold damascus octagonal barrel with partially file cut top flat and engraved 'ALEXR. HENRY . EDINBURGH AND LONDON', open sights with two folding leaf sights, marked 200 and 300 yards (one leaf slightly bent), ramped bead fore-sight, Henry patent rifling, patent no. 2802 of 15th November 1860, Adams & Tait use number 4606, Jones patent rotary-underlever, carved percussion fence, non-rebounding back-action lock with bolted hammer, border engraving, retaining very slight traces of original colour-hardening, 14 1/4in. well-figured pistolgrip stock (light repairs either side of top tang), with pistolgrip-cap and including 5/8in. wooden extension, fore-end with carved finial, insert repairs to edges and light damage to crosspin catch, weight 7lb. 1oz.

Provenance: The makers records list the rifle as being completed as a .450 single barrelled breech loading rifle on the 7th July 1879 for 1879 for Frederick Snowden Corrance, b1820. Resided at Broadwater, Framlingham.

Raimey...you are always 1) knowledgeable and 2) curious. Great combination

Well, the thesis was that the A&T built rifle barrels using the Henry Patent rifling had chronological patent use numbers from about 1862 (or earlier...not clear) up to 1888. Several internet posters claimed this was true - I don't think anyone of them ever tested it out. Gun "truisms" seem to take on a life of their own.

It looked like a graph using 5 or six data points was reasonably consistent. Additional look at very early use numbers 3 -700 on Alexr Henry single barrel .451 M-L rifles show some semblance of order (probably 1860-65). But there are 4 guns with A&T use #'s radically outside the curve. And there are use numbers which are higher on a 1869 gun than on an 1873 gun. This variance is difficult to deconflict or reconcile. (Toby as always warned me of this).

So, I guess we'll have to consign this theory to the ash heap of history. I'll continue looking at the Henry Patent use #'s on A&T barrels just for the heck of it hoping to make some sense of the chronology. There are a lot of them out there but sellers don't seem to want to post the use #'s - or they may not recognize them as such (in a lot of cases we are talking about the firearms sellers equivalent of carpet merchants and camel dealers). Maybe at the least, it'll convince sellers that there is interest in what's on their guns and encourage them to publish the info.

For curiosity, still wondering about how Henry got his patent extended for 14 years in 1874...a couple of years ago when I was looking at Reilly Martini Henry's I vaguely recall something about a deal the arsenal made with Henry on the Martini-Henry.. Curiosity is a dangerous thing but for the moment, ensconced in the house, cleaning a muzzle loader for the 20th time, I just need another vodka.

I was contacted by a member of this forum with a Durs Egg .500/.450 double rifle that he had traditionally dated between 1869 and 1880 because of the Egg address on the rib. It has "Henry Patent A&T 555 and 556 on the barrels. I should think tthe barrels on the Egg were stamped with their patent use numbers very close to the two 1874 Reilly's above, their use numbers being within 150 of each other. So something comes out of this - i.e. the Egg BPE was probably delivered 1874-75.
-- 1) Egg would serial number his guns when ordered
-- 2) The barrels would be selected and presumably serial numbered when picked up? Did A&T mate them and file them? or did Egg?
-- 3) the barrels would sit in the Egg shop and the action be built around them?
-- 4) Egg could have completed the gun anywhere from 1874-75?
So the gun would have been ordered in circa 1874...the barrels selected and serial numbered shortly thereafter (had to be 1874 - see below re Reilly)?
(Reilly prided himself on building and delivering a gun in 3 months...a little easier to figure out).

It also makes me think that these three low Patent use numbers in 400-550 range, were not a mistake. I'm wondering if there were two Henry Patent use number chronologies, one starting in 1860 and continuing on to 1878 or so. And a second starting when the Patent was renewed 1873-74 time frame. Donald Dallas might know.