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Originally Posted By: BrentD
Stan was just "sniping"....

Who was?

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Letfly, try this put the cocking pin in with the other end first, I had the same problem and lo and behold it worked.

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Gunny, thanks. Unfortunately this does not resolve my problem. My issue is a cocking hook keyway with too much slop. The cocking hook will lift up +0.34" before engaging the hammer pin rotation. Direction of pin insertion does not help.

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Dewey Vicknair is correct about the function of the cocking hook, and the area of free travel permitted by the much wider cocking axle key arc in the hammers.

It is extremely doubtful that the key slot in the cocking hook wore out to the point that the hammer/sear relationship wore out as much as your photos illustrate. You are quite a distance from the sears engaging the hammer notch, and even a tiny bit would have been enough to make the gun no longer able to be cocked. It would have taken thousands of further unsuccessful attempts to cock the gun to accumulate that much additional wear.... highly unlikely.

I think I would start by checking the fit of the original cocking axle to the cocking hook. I know that one end of it was fractured, which led you to have a new cocking axle made. I would want to know if the hammer on the unbroken side was able to come to full cock or sear engagement. If so, then I would tend to think there is something wrong with the newly machined cocking axle.

I had been under the impression that the "tits" or integral keys on the Lefever cocking axles were not all perfectly in line... rather that the center key was several degrees different than the keys for the hammers. This is why I have previously found that the cocking axle is directional, and that it usually has an x or hash mark on the right end. This is probably what gunny encountered when he reversed his and fixed his problem.

But I just checked a Lefever cocking axle, and it appears that they are all in line, and this particular axle has no mark on one end. Also, the fit of the cocking hook to the axle is very snug with no rotational slop, as Dewey Vicknair noted above. Now I am left wondering if there was a subtle design change, and that there are two versions of cocking axles with a slightly different key alignment. I will try to check the cocking axle on another Lefever I am working on to see if it is different.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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Originally Posted By: SDH-MT
Isn't keith a remarkable guy? Just the kind of upstanding, forthright and evolved kind of guy you would like to bring home and introduce to you younger sister?
ol joe is another inspiring, warm and insightful, stand-up kinda guy. What a crew to be proud of, don't cha think?


Now I would like to address and respond to this bullshit. Steven DODD Hughes is the sick pervert who called me on the phone from (406) 222-9377 in Livingston, Montana on 2/2/19 in an obviously extremely drunken state. He was slurring his words as he screamed obscenities and vulgar threats at me. Of course, Steven DODD Hughes did not carry out the threats he made to me, because he is a gutless coward.

This is the sick little fag-bastard who is now questioning whether anyone would wish to introduce their sister to jOe or myself.

Steven DODD Hughes did not enter this thread to contribute any knowledge or useful information. If you want information from Steven DODD Hughes, you need to buy one of his books or sign up for one of the very expensive classes that he advertises here... without compensating Dave for the free advertising. Contrast this sick and cheap-ass behavior with the help provided by Dewey Vicknair, who took time from his very busy schedule to give free and useful advice.

Steven DODD Hughes is a sad and pathetic little man who could never follow through on his drunken threats. It is no shock to see Steven DODD Hughes acting like a woman to tell Stan that he is IGNORING him. And it is no surprise whatsoever that BrentD feels that Stan was wrong to confront him, and that he would defend someone who would stoop so low as to making cowardly physical threats over the phone. You will never see BrentD crying about the totally off-topic crap posted here by his fat little friend. BrentD's use of this forum, while he continues his one-puke campaign to encourage folks to not contribute to this site, is even lower class than Steven DODD Hughes use of this site for free advertising. Birds of a feather.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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Keith, thanks for bringing me along on the hard felt personal differences on the forum.

Now to the hammer pin issue. In making the new pin I sent the original to Lou and ask him to duplicate it. As I was advised on the directional aspect I asked him to measure this as precisely as possible. The original pin does not have an alignment mark. There is no alignment or measurable difference in the three individual keys. Before contacting Lou I received one (from Gun Parts Co) that was to short to use. As you observe the keys are identical in all dimensions. From this I am skeptical of the idea that the hook key is offset on the centerline.

Now to Dewey's drawing. My cocking hook keyway looks similar to the hammer keyway. Close examination shows metal deformation made by the key itself. The key shows no wear. This tells me the metal in the hook keyway is softer than the hammer pin. Also the wear pattern would suggest that the barrels were closed hard over 100+ years.

I understand that the hammer pin must start it's rotation immediately as the barrels open and drop. Otherwise when the barrels reach their full drop, the hook it's maximum lift, the hammers are not rotated fully. This is the case with my gun.

Dredging up my University industrial arts and geometry converting linear lift to rotational degrees I calculate that it takes only +0.024 of slop in the keyway to keep the hammers from reaching a rotation needed for the hooks to pass the sears and engage. On my gun.

More when I get the repaired hook back from Lou. Thanks for your interest.

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This is interesting LetFly. I have to ask you if the pictures you posted in this thread were taken with the barrels fully open, because the sears are a long way from engaging the hammer notches, relatively speaking.

I went back to the old thread where you first discovered that you had a fractured cocking or hammer axle. You mentioned that you were able to bring the right hammer to full cocked position, even though the integral keyed portion was broken. You did not mention whether the left hammer came to full cocked position. If both hammers came to full cock position, then there has to be some dimensional difference in the new cocking axle.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=564255&page=3

I also find it interesting that you have as much wear in the cocking hook as you describe. The one I examined earlier is a very tight fit on the cocking axle, with zero discernible slop. I've spent most of my life fixing things, and when something wears to the point where it will no longer function, it is typically repaired, replaced, scrapped, or retired. It does not get the chance to accumulate a great deal of additional wear, which is what your photos depict... unless the barrels are not fully open.

It is also interesting to see that the right end of the cocking axle in Dewey Vicknair's short video has a hash mark. I cannot recall if I ever put one in backwards, but I can say for certain that every one I have seen has the mark on the right side, when the hash mark is present. When I take one apart, I always put them back together exactly as they were originally assembled. And I have seen several accounts where it is claimed that putting it in with the hash mark to the left will affect cocking of the hammers, as gunny mentioned earlier. I haven't yet had the chance to check another gun to see if orientation of the cocking axle is critical. But why then, would they bother to put that mark on one end?

EDIT--- By the way, it was my pleasure to set the record straight on Steven DODD Hughes' off-topic comments. Some here don't care for context, but I prefer context over allowing a disingenuous turd to operate in a vacuum.

Last edited by keith; 03/21/20 02:09 AM.

A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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Patent no. 865,310 provides the needed details. Boy, I am now really in the weeds with this one.

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Reply to Keith:
No, barrels not fully open as I took the photo with one hand holding the gun open with the other. If I had put the gun in my vise to be able to take the photos with the barrels at maximum drop the hooks would be marginally short of engagement.

As to the manner by which the hook keyway earned it's slop my guess is as good as anybody's.

Last edited by LetFly; 03/21/20 03:34 PM.
#567814 03/21/20 03:27 PM
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Actually I missed page 5 with the video before my last post. Functions just like mine. Thanks.

I have in my possession 3 hammer pins, my original, plus two others from GPC (original broken, GPC 1 too short, 2 too rough to use). None have any mark depicting a right or left end as shown in your video AND all are perfectly symmetrical in all dimensions. On these three examples of the hammer pin I cannot find anything that determines a unique orientation for the pin.

The only issue with my gun and its hook is the elongation of the keyway. Why the elongation? Perhaps poor workmanship at the start. A monday morning filer after a heavy night with the grogg. Or, perhaps some long ago 'gunsmith' had trouble fitting the pin back in and decided a little more slop was 'just the ticket'.

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