doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Voluntary lead ban in UK

On technology, wherever there's a dollar to be made in our consumer culture someone will come up with reasonable alternatives. The "big question" is how long it takes to get magnumitis out of shooters' heads. Anything in 7,000psi-range and 1200fps has been good to me for 80 years.

The range being quoted for steel shot non magnum loads suitable for a 2 3/4 12 bore is 25 to 30 metres ,for rough shooting that�s not ideal . I�m hoping that will be improved on so that 2 1/2 inch chambered guns will be a viable proposition when the ban is introduced.
The birds I remember from the season are the 40 yard driven pheasants that fold up. If the ban curtails that I can see myself switching from pheasants to flighted duck. I�d sooner shoot closer fast moving duck at evening flight into wetland than shoot pheasants at under 30 yards.

It's a tremendous opportunity for wad development.

I think scintered W (Tungsten) loads, and co-polymer pellets, will take the place of the heavy lead loads on the high bird shoots.

The costs are going to be moved around, but the guns can definitely expect to pay much more.
10-1 days will be much more rare.

And, (I pray this to be true) images of end loaders disposing of birds on large bag days will be things of the past.

Frank Boddy and I have talked about these issues for years.

Personally, I wish someone would produce a pheasant bratwurst, and sell them frozen as a "Save our sport!" Fundraiser, into American gun clubs.

Our market is so big, that instead of paying for disposal, money might actually be made on it.

My club is the beneficiary of a member that owns a preserve, and grinds breasts and thighs into a grillable sausage.
Older gents love them, as they are much leaner than commercial brats.

I shot that Alex Martin 28 Bore, or one very very like it a few years ago when Dickson had an open day at Dunkeld. I very much coveted it and it shot superbly. Those Alex Martin over and under's where made by an Italian maker within the last 20 years, but sadly it went out of business a few years ago. I would much less concern about the availability and use of steel in one of those, than a vintage 2 1/2" chambered gun. If it was a 20 bore, absolutely no issues getting non-toxic and there are plenty of modern 28s in use that it is worth cartridge manufacturers working on developing cartridges.

As for high birds, well a 3" High Velocity Steel cartridge seems to bring down high wigeon well enough with my Franchi Semi Auto. With the correct gun and cartridge I expect high pheasants will be the same - most seem to be shot with modern 3" chambered long barrelled variable chocked over and under by Perrazzi, Berretta or Browning.

And with older guns, Dig Haddeokes article on Vintage Guns makes good reading. Frankly if you can afford to shoot driven phaesants at c�40 a bird or driven grouse at whatever �lots then go form �0.30 a bang to �1.00 is n't actually going to add a lot of cost. For me a days small shoot with Alex Martin will cost me �25 in bismuth cartridges - and I won't waste them on high flying pigeons and pick and choose my shots.

As for Rifles, the Forestry Commission in England has switched to non-toxic and in extensive testing have found no real difference to traditional bullets. I use the Fox brand from Edinburgh Rifles in my 7x57 and very pleased with the results. They punch a clean 2" diameter hole straight through, deer drop dead very quickly, but you don't all the bruising that you do with a traditional lead bullet. Typically I put a bullet through the shoulder and there is minimal meat damage. With a typical Interlock type bullet I would expect to loose a shoulder on this type of shot.

I shot an orvis uplander 20 bore all last season on a small walk one stand one shoot and shot far better than usual and considered moving down to a 28 bore. I�ve handled a few Alex Martin over and unders and like yourself was very impressed and I like the straight hand on a lighter gun hence my interest in the Holts Alex Martin.
I shoot near the Solway and there�s always the odd goose flighting over so the drop from carrying a 3 inch 12 ,with the ability to use the odd heavy goose load,to a twenty took a bit of thinking about. In practice it wasn�t an issue but I think using a 28 with anything less than an equivalent maximum lead load at the lower flying geese I wouldn�t be comfortable with. I�m not ruling out a 28 in future just don�t want to jump for it before I�m clearer on what the future holds
I shoot a few roe with my .222 will that still be suitable for roe deer using non lead ammunition ?

So essentially, the "voluntary ban" isn't voluntary at all. It would be best to cut the crap and start calling it exactly what it is... a compulsory ban.

These word games are no different than firearm, magazine, or ammunition bans that our anti-gun Liberal Democrats try to get enacted by calling them "common sense gun laws" or "gun safety measures".

Not to be condescending, but I'd like to think that shooters and gun owners in the UK would have learned how the anti-gunners operate by now.



Exactly! There is documented scientific evidence that people who consume hunter shot game are not being poisoned by lead shot or bullet fragments. And if the tired old falsehood about lead salts or lead oxide leaching into soils and lakes and causing lead poisoning was true, all of the vast tonnage of lead shot fired into our marshes, lakes, rivers, and estuaries before the U.S. ban on lead shot for waterfowl hunting would still be causing mass poisoning of waterfowl. Every living creature in or around Civil War battlefields like Gettysburg should be dead or dying from all of the lead bullets in the soil. Nobody went out there and cleaned it all up.

The simple fact of the matter is that larger pieces of lead are not a very bio-available form of lead as a toxin. It was much different with the tetraethyl lead in gasoline, or the lead in paints and many other chemical compounds. We've hashed this fact out here many times before, but we still have hunters in the U.S. who fall for the bullshit, and refuse to push back against junk science and outright lies. Most any person who eats hunter shot birds knows of the possibility of biting into shot that wasn't found during cleaning. They chew gently, and they certainly don't swallow any they may bite into. In the event that they did inadvertently swallow lead shot, it would very quickly pass out the other end, and into the crapper. Of course, biting into steel shot is a lot more likely to break a tooth, and other so-called non-toxic shot has its' own environmental toxicity.

The voluntary ban has been instigated by the major game shooting organisations in the UK to encourage shooters to switch to non lead shot. Legally there is no requirement to do so.
The five year period will allow manufacturers to clear their stock of lead shot and hopefully come up with suitable alternatives.
After the five years government will legislate ,there may be exemptions for older weapons or for those shooting game for their own consumption. The large commercial shoots will probably have no option other than to switch to non lead shot after the five year period is up as may we all.
Shooters are well aware of how antis operate here in the UK having come through a raft of legislation banning an array of firearms and having to comply with ever more licensing ,there is no need to state the obvious .
This voluntary ban is just voluntary over a five year period there will be no need to switch from lead during that period . After the five years there will be a compulsory ban or more simply a ban.

I'd heap rather bite down on a lead shot and spit it out than crack a tooth on steel...Geo

I'm all for responsible taking and use of game, but maybe the truth is that estate shooting is a luxury not a necessity. Out of sight causing things to be out of mind is useful, just as justification for sustenance is dishonest. The estates are running a business, why not let the individual shoots decide if they want their harvest to be marketable, or if the return isn't worth the effort?

Respectfully, I disagree completely. There actually is a need to state the obvious, because the compulsory ban on lead shot is coming. The fact that dealers and manufacturers get a short time to clear their stocks of lead ammo, and change over production to ballistcally inferior and much more costly non-lead alternatives means nothing. Shooters and gun owners in the UK have been royally screwed again.

They call this sort of attrition a death by a thousand cuts.

The anti-gun forces always say that they just want this one more reasonable little concession, but they soon come back to take away more gun rights. Don't take this observation personally. We have a lot of guys right here in the U.S. who still think they can appease the anti-gun Liberal Left Democrats by giving up someone else's rights to own an AR15, an autoloader, a handgun, a large cap magazine, lead ammunition, scoped high power rifles, etc. These guys keep on voting for the anti-gun politicians who keep coming back to take away more freedom from law abiding citizens.They have to be mentally ill, and they undermine all gun owners.

Repeatedly pointing those facts out has made me a hated enemy to several of them here. I can live with that.