doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Roster and low pressure loads

Mike George, Technical Editor, �ShootingUK�
http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/what-is-fluid-steel-and-is-it-stronger-than-damascus-steel-13767
�In the USA there is one chap who is active on websites who believes that all Damascus steel barrels are so dangerous they should be destroyed.�
http://www.randywakeman.com/WhyYouShouldStayAwayfromDamascusBarrels.htm
�But then you are likely to get piffle like this from a nation that does not have gun barrel proof legislation.�
(Piffle: �pseudo-scientific trivial nonsense, baloney�)

sounds like what roster is saying is simply this:

if you must run smokeless loads through a gun designed for black powder loads, then, either:

a. have the gun proofed for smokeless loads, or

b. shoot the ammo the gun was designed for, black powder loads...

better safe than sorry...

makes sense to me...

or, you could obtain something like this, and have the option to shoot both black and smokeless..

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=563845&#Post563845

Ed, you may have trouble with this because you seem to have trouble with the science of CCH......but I'll still give it a shot.

The problem we have with Roster's "advice" is it is not based on science. Stan alluded to that in the first follow-up post.....how do the barrels tell the difference between 7000psi produced by black powder or by smokeless. The quick answer is the barrels don't. 7000 psi is 7000 psi. Yes, there are different burn rates that adjust the speed with which the pressure builds and then tapers off....but it's still 7000 psi.

For a guy who sells vintage guns, you sure don't know what side your bread is buttered on.

lot of inconsistency in the manufacture of cast and twist barrels... therefore, advise:

"better safe than sorry"...

and i do like to sell old guns, but also try to caution my customers, in order to keep them from hurting themselves...

Ed, not really sure what your first statement means. I also contacted Mr. Roster years ago and his excuse was " as long as shell manufactures say not to use their loads in Damascus barrel guns " that he was going to take the same stand. I pointed out to him pressure is pressure whether from a nitro load or BP load and maybe it was just cover your a$$ legal jumbo on the side of the box but he wouldn't budge. I quite reading anything he had to write.

blade, cast iron and twist steel barrels were mostly hand made by people with varying levels of skill...most were proofed for black powder, some were not...no sure way to tell how old black powder spec barrels will hold up to high pressure, without subjecting them to nitro proof...

also, if you tell some people that it is safe to shoot smokeless loads under 7000 psi, in a gun designed for black powder loads, guess what, they will forget about the 7000 psi part, and shoot whatever they think is best for their purpose...which, could create a hand held bomb...

I believe the warnings printed on shell boxes are simply to avoid "failure to warn" products liability lawsuits. I highly doubt shell manufacturers have done any research whatsoever on modern load suitability to vintage guns, you simply will never make it to a trial by jury if one blows up in your hands.

Any shells sold under SAAMI approval(pretty much all shells in the US) are mandated to carry this warning. This was decided at an industry meeting in the 1920's and remains in effect. The purpose in my mind was to sell more guns.

I read an interesting article about that meeting and how the warning became standard on American shotshells but I have no idea where I read that.

A.P. Curtis published a two part article in the July 1936 and the March 1938 American Rifleman entitled �Advantages of Short Shotgun Chambers� (courtesy of Larry Brown):
SAAMI, assembled in serious conference on March 26, 1937, passed the following resolution: �That an appropriate warning label be placed on all boxes containing smokeless powder shells, cautioning the consumer against using them in short chambered guns and also in guns with Damascus barrels and guns not in first-class condition.� The motion was made and seconded by representatives of two powder companies.
That same conference also passed a resolution requiring: �That all guns be marked so that the consumer will be able to tell the chamber length, as for example by marking 2 3/4 inch chamber etc.�

�These shells must not be used in guns with Damascus or Twist Steel barrels� warning appeared on shell boxes shortly thereafter.