doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DIY Gunsmithing @ doublegunshop.com Timberlux

Thanks all.

It is good to see Mike and Mark posting here. I appreciate everyone who share their experiences. Easy to understand why all won't agree on products and processes.I understand that it is thinned before actual usage.

Would any of you care to comment on the pros and cons of a 50/50 mix of tung oil and marine spar varnish for a sanded in finish? No arguments will be forthcoming from me. I'm just trying to learn.

Thanks, SRH

Jim,
Would you care to talk about your slacum mixture? I tried some of the published info from one of our British members and ended up with a nice smelling oil with wax on top that did not harden. I know others had similar results and one poster felt it was a change in metallic driers on this side of the pond. I would be very interested in hearing about your positive results.
Steve

If it's from a trusted source, why not.

My thought would be, to be particularly careful to follow brand recommendations. I don't think there is just one formulation of spar varnish and most tung oils are chemical modifications themselves into resins. I don't think the different ingredients in finishes stay separate, but probably react chemically to become something else. Generically, I'd suspect most any commercial wood oil finish that hardens is probably a 'varnish'.

Because I probably don't have the experience a lot of you folks have, my preference is to thin a favored finish with whatever the manufacturer recommends for cleanup. It may take longer, more layers, to lay down, but it helps me tone down some finishing problems that say, bubba was here. I don't mind mind argument or disagreement about it, it's only opinion.

Alrighty, does anyone have a thought about a thin wood sealer? What I'd like to try to do is lessen how checkering might look darker with the same finish as the rest of a stock.

I have recently come into a gun that was finished in this way, and the finish is a gorgeous, satiny finish with pores completely filled. Mostly curious about opinions as to it's resistance to weather, handling, etc.

Thanks, craig. SRH

This is from memory, so not 100% certain about some of the details:

I started with alkanet soaked linseed oil (Tried and True Danish Oil, which is just polymerized linseed without any additives; alkanet powder from an herbal shop online) mixed 50:50 with pure gum turps (Diamond G brand pure pine spirits). I used that until I liked the color, then switched to oil and turps without color. Once that had begun to build up a little, I switched to Tried and True Original and Danish oil mixed (the original is linseed and beeswax and was a little thick), carnuba wax, Venetian turps, and a few drops of lavender oil in lieu of elf's blood.

I was happy with the finish but I did struggle with it not wanting to harden. With some more time, it seems great now. Definitely not a high speed finishing process.

This is when it was still not completely hardened, but still had a decent shine.


And the other side after some more coats:


Here's what I started with:

The problem with varnish today is that the term �Varnish� is used to describe all sorts of finishes: polyurethane, urethane, low VOC, water based etc� no telling what�s in them.

Traditional varnish was a mixture of Resin (generally Copal), Oil (Tung or linseed), Metallic Driers, and a Solvent (Mineral Spirits, Naphtha, Paint Thinner, Stoddard Solvent).

So if you are using a traditional varnish; which is getting harder and harder to find, it should be fully compatible with tung oil, for thinner I would use Mineral spirits.

Try mixing some, and apply it to a piece of scrap wood first.

I'd think that combination would probably provide a nice protective stock finish Stan. But I'll repeat what I've learned about tung oil from multiple sources... Most of the stuff that is labeled Tung Oil contains little or no actual tung oil. Truth in advertising is almost non-existent in the wood finish business.

I'll go back and recommend that you pick up a copy of the book "Understanding Wood Finishing" by Bob Flexner. I've read much of what he says in the book from dozens of other reputable sources in the stock making and furniture finishing business over the years. But his book is the best compendium of most all of it that I have found to date. He also covers stains, strippers, thinners, and prep work. Used copies that can be left out in the shop for a quick reference are available online for less than 10 bucks. If anyone finds something with more good information packed between two covers... please let me know.

Like you, I am still learning. Once upon a time, I was under the impression that refined Linseed compounds were the tits, and I started finishing with GB Linspeed, etc. Thankfully, I learned that there are many many other finishes that are much better, and rarely much more expensive. All it takes is a willingness to learn.

In the chapter on oil finishes, Flexner relates that he was once asked by the editor of Woodwork Magazine to write an article on tung oil. He says he thought it would be an easy assignment, but it took him three months of research, experimentation, and sifting through false claims. His assertion that most tung oil isn't really tung oil is a confirmation of many others who are knowledgeable about wood finishes. It seems that most of it is nothing more than thinned varnish. And even varnish is a broad term that covers a lot of very different compounds. Furthermore, the Spar varnish half of your mixture may not really be traditional Spar Varnish. Rather it may be some modern formulation that is a cheaper alternative thanks to the development of plastic resins.

Like others here, I don't have any over-priced one-size-fits-all solution to wood finishing. Often, I wish to try to stay as close to what a vintage gun manufacturer used originally, so that requires using finishes that are not the absolute best protection, or best for fine checkering, or best for pore filling. Often, especially with field grade guns, if you seek to replicate original finish, perfectly filled pores are the last thing you want. That is why a lot of guns almost scream at you that they have been refinished.

craigd, most finishes that are cut with the appropriate solvent will penetrate deeper and seal the wood better. Some popular sealers are nothing more than the flagship product that is cut with thinner.

As you know, the problem with checkering is that those little diamonds contain a lot of end grain, so they naturally absorb much more stain, finish, skin oils, etc. and become darker than the surrounding wood. To a point, this is what we mostly want and expect to see in a stock. The common practice after checkering is to brush in a little thinned finish of the same brand that was used for the stock. But there is nothing to say that you can't carefully use something else that won't darken the diamonds quite as much. You might even wish to try some thinned polyurethane which often is lighter than many finishes. It may also have the added benefit of penetrating the diamonds and making them tougher and more resistant to breaking or other damage. You can even use a cyanoacrylate (crazy glue) to toughen and seal checkering diamonds in wood that is more brittle, porous, or prone to fuzzing.

Try cutting some checkering into a scrap of the same wood, and experimenting with different thinned finishes to get the effect and color you want. I'll repeat what I said earlier about my little experiment with wood glues and finishes. I tried perhaps a dozen different brands of untinted "clear" finishes. I used a gloss and a satin polurethane, Minwax oil modified urethane, Linspeed, Tru-Oil, Tung Oil, Waterlox, Watco Danish Oil, Deft, Permalyn, a couple different varnishes including some very old Sherwin Williams Spar Varnish that my Grandfather had in his basement when he died in the late 1960's, plus a couple more. The final appearance on the same piece of black walnut was somewhat different for every one of them. But as I recall, the polyurethanes I tried gave me the lightest tint.

Edit: And here's a little tip to keep all those opened cans and bottles of finish from skinning over and drying out... They sell a product called BlOxygen Finish Preserver that is simply a spray can of inert gas that is heavier than air.

https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/document.do?docId=1147

You squirt some into your can of finish or paint just before closing the lid, and being heavier than air, it displaces the oxygen that causes your finish to skin over or harden in the can. However, I realized that I have a 220 cu. ft. and a 60 cu. ft. tank of inert gas on my two MIG welder carts. I just lift the wire feed wheels and squirt a good shot of Argon-CO2 into my paint and finish cans and bottles and immediately seal them. It works great with expensive moisture cure urethane paints too.

As a newcomer to all of this, it is that complexity that makes the experimentation fun but also intimidating. Even in the suggestions above, which are all very much appreciated, there is the caveat that the experts here use different finishes for different purposes and that one has to be extremely careful when buying ingredients or commercial concoctions.

In my opinion, that is the appeal of a well-advertised bottle of something someone else has made.

For me, the learning is much of the enjoyment, even if I will never be a professional or expert.

Thanks to all of you for sharing your knowledge.