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#559513 - 12/01/19 09:56 AM UPDATE * T.BLAND & SONS "EUOPLIA" 12GA PARADOX GUN
buckstix Offline
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Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 330
Loc: Whitetail Country
THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN

Hello All,

I brought this over from another Forum because I'm so excited about the purchase that I wanted to share it here also.

I've been looking for a Paradox Gun for about 4 years. Several have escaped me because they were too pricey.

I took a real gamble on this Paradox Gun because the auction listing had a very skimpy description.

This picture below was the only information that was listed about the gun.

.



.

I didn't want to ask too many questions before bidding, because in the past it has resulted in the Auction House updating the listing which made it more desirable to all the auction watchers, and caused the price to shoot-up beyond my budget. So, I bit my tongue and took a gamble. The RED background photos are from the auction listing. The other photos are mine.

Well, the gamble paid off in spades. I received a absolute MINT condition Paradox Gun, Factory Cased with matching bullet mold, loading tools, and cleaning accessories. Its hard to believe this gun is 127 years old.

Here's the specs:

28" Barrels - 13-7/8" LOP - 7 lbs 6 oz - Rebounding Hammers - 2-Leaf Express Sight marked "50" & "100"
Rib is marked "The "EUROPLIA" Ball & Shot Gun" - "T. Bland & Sons 430 West Strand London"
Barrels marked "A&T" (Adams & Tate - maker) - Birmingham Proofed
Matching Bullet Mold - Casts a Conical bullet - 790g RN & 730g HP
Misc. Tools, Powder/Shot Measures, Loading Tube/Rammer/Decapper, Capper, & Wad Punch

What's really amazing is the condition. All original finish in nearly 99% condition with full case-color remaining. Bores and chambers appear to be "un-fired". The only defect I could find was a small 1/16" chip off the tip of the toe of the horn butt-plate.

My only question is: the end of the cleaning rod handle has a leather washer pinned to its end. What is this for? ... and, does anyone know who Mr. Shields might have been?

As always, your comments are most welcome.


















_________________________
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"

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#559514 - 12/01/19 09:57 AM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: buckstix]
buckstix Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 330
Loc: Whitetail Country
continued .........

.



















_________________________
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"

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#559625 - 12/02/19 07:06 PM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: buckstix]
setterspell Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 10
I was there too, hoping to get a deal on the Lang. You got a great one right there! Congrats!

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#559647 - 12/02/19 08:45 PM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: buckstix]
CJF Offline
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Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 138
Loc: North Carolina
Congratulations. Beautiful condition and wonderful accessories.

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#559675 - 12/03/19 08:59 AM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: CJF]
buckstix Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 330
Loc: Whitetail Country
Originally Posted By: setterspell
I was there too, hoping to get a deal on the Lang. You got a great one right there! Congrats!

Hello setterspell,
Thanks for the reply.

Were you physically at the auction. Did you see this Paradox gun? Did you get the Lang?

Originally Posted By: CJF
Congratulations. Beautiful condition and wonderful accessories.

Hello CJF
Thanks for the reply.

I start loading today.
_________________________
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"

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#559700 - 12/03/19 11:28 AM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: buckstix]
setterspell Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 10
Yes, I was there. I live 5 miles from the Auction site.
No, I didnt get the Lang. I hoped to sneak it out cheap but it went about right IMO.
Again, Congrats, "you done good" as we say 'round here.

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#559708 - 12/03/19 12:48 PM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: setterspell]
buckstix Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 330
Loc: Whitetail Country
Originally Posted By: setterspell
Yes, I was there. I live 5 miles from the Auction site.
No, I didnt get the Lang. I hoped to sneak it out cheap but it went about right IMO.
Again, Congrats, "you done good" as we say 'round here.

Hello setterspell,
Thanks for the reply.

Because of the short description, I was pretty skeptical when I bid on this. But I ended up so happy that I actually called the Auction House and thanks them for the fine item, and especially for their fast processing and shipping. The auction ended on Thursday November 21st, and it was delivered on Friday November 29th - only 8 days later.
_________________________
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"

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#559728 - 12/03/19 10:50 PM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: buckstix]
buckstix Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 330
Loc: Whitetail Country
Hello all,

Well, I've loaded some ammo for the range test tomorrow. I used the existing loading tools.

I saw an interesting crimping method that Eley used for their ball loadings, so I made a tool to replicate that crimping method. It worked great.

I opted to use a low pressure smokeless load so as not fowl up the rifle with black powder.

Tomorrow I should have some shooting test results.









UPDATE:

Here are the first range results. Not too impressive yet. But not a concern beause velocity for these should be 1000 fps to 1050 fps and and I'm at 855 fps. Increasing velocity should bring the shots together.

_________________________
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"

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#559794 - 12/05/19 03:53 AM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: buckstix]
Mike Harrell Offline
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Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 3297
Loc: Alaska
Buckstix wouldn't want to make another brass case crimper like that and sell it to me would you? lol

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#559796 - 12/05/19 05:14 AM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: buckstix]
Hammergun Offline
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Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 643
Loc: The Eastern Shore
I'm envious Buckstix. You sure have a lot of nice stuff.

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#559836 - 12/05/19 09:57 PM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: buckstix]
keith Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 9626
That is a really nice Thomas Bland Paradox.
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Then voting for Liberal Democrats makes you anti-2nd Amendment

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#559850 - 12/06/19 02:06 AM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: Hammergun]
buckstix Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 330
Loc: Whitetail Country
Originally Posted By: Mike Harrell
Buckstix wouldn't want to make another brass case crimper like that and sell it to me would you? lol

Hello Mike Harrell,
Thanks for the reply.

I would be making more of my crimping devices if I could find some of the MEC brass crimp starters. Unfortunately they are long discontinued by MEC. Now they are made of plastic. I've seen some of the brass inserts for sale on eBay, but they go for $25 - $35 each. If I ever find a source, I'll make some and offer them for sale.




Here are pictures of the bullets from the mold.



Originally Posted By: Hammergun
I'm envious Buckstix. You sure have a lot of nice stuff.

Hello Hammergun,
Thanks for the reply
_________________________
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"

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#559863 - 12/06/19 12:50 PM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: buckstix]
rocky mtn bill Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 1359
Loc: MT
This is a nice story. Good for you.
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Bill Ferguson

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#560264 - 12/12/19 03:08 PM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: Mike Harrell]
buckstix Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 330
Loc: Whitetail Country
Originally Posted By: Mike Harrell
Buckstix wouldn't want to make another brass case crimper like that and sell it to me would you? lol


By the way - For those of you that asked about me making them a PARADOX SHELL CRIMPER .... I bought a crimping star at the Gun Show and made another PARADOX CRIMPER.

$150 delivered - PM me.



_________________________
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"

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#560557 - 12/17/19 12:58 AM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: buckstix]
bavarianbrit Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 02/25/10
Posts: 209
Loc: Bavaria, Germany
I have a very similar gun, just a little less engraving and get 2.5 inch group of two shots using Brenneke slug loads.

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#560590 - 12/17/19 04:50 PM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: bavarianbrit]
buckstix Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 330
Loc: Whitetail Country
Originally Posted By: bavarianbrit
I have a very similar gun, just a little less engraving and get 2.5 inch group of two shots using Brenneke slug loads.

Hello bavarianbrit
Thanks for the reply

Here's the results from the last testing. I tested 5 different wad / card / bullet combinations. Groups measured 2-1/4" to 7" at 50 yards. Here's the best combination tested. Apparently this gun prefers a little harder bullet of 15:1 alloy, (BHN 11) and the heavier 790g Round Nose as compared to the 730g Hollow Point.

I'll be testing this load formula again with both HP and RN bullets to make sure the results are repeatable.

_________________________
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"

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#560795 - 12/21/19 03:45 AM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: buckstix]
bavarianbrit Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 02/25/10
Posts: 209
Loc: Bavaria, Germany
Very similar to what my three shooters grouped out at. They are an amazing tribute to handmade engineering btw mine cost me £450 around 1997.

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#561691 - 12/31/19 10:49 AM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: buckstix]
CptCurl Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 07/12/06
Posts: 348
Loc: Virginia
Specifications for H&H Paradox ammunition call for 15:1 alloy.

Wouldn't you like to give this gun a go with real black powder? I think you will be quite pleased if you construct a "factory equivalent" black powder load.

My 10b H&H Paradox really sings with its intended load of 8 drams. Mine's a 10b, mind you, so don't go pouring 8 drams in a 12b! I would have to go to the books for the original H&H 12b load.

That's a very nice gun. You have done well!

Curl
_________________________
www.RoscoeStephenson.com


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#561694 - 12/31/19 11:11 AM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: buckstix]
SKB Offline
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Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 4891
Loc: Colorado
H&H had two different 12 bore loads, the original at 1050 fps and the magnum load at 1250 fps.
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ACGG Professional metalsmith, firearms import services.

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#561749 - 01/01/20 06:47 AM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: SKB]
buckstix Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 330
Loc: Whitetail Country
Originally Posted By: bavarianbrit
Very similar to what my three shooters grouped out at. They are an amazing tribute to handmade engineering btw mine cost me £450 around 1997.

Hello bavarianbrit
Thanks od the reply.

That's a very good price you got on your paradox.

Originally Posted By: CptCurl
Specifications for H&H Paradox ammunition call for 15:1 alloy.

Wouldn't you like to give this gun a go with real black powder? I think you will be quite pleased if you construct a "factory equivalent" black powder load.

My 10b H&H Paradox really sings with its intended load of 8 drams. Mine's a 10b, mind you, so don't go pouring 8 drams in a 12b! I would have to go to the books for the original H&H 12b load.

That's a very nice gun. You have done well!

Curl

Hello CptCurl
Thanks for the reply.

I don't think an 8 dram load would be suitable in my Paradox since it barely weighs 7-1/4 pounds. I'll keep looking for info on what Thomas Bland would have considered an appropriate load for this. Also, I don't like using black powder because there's too much of a chance of missing a trace during clean-up - and finding a rust spot in the future.

Originally Posted By: SKB
H&H had two different 12 bore loads, the original at 1050 fps and the magnum load at 1250 fps.

Hello SKB
Thanks for the reply.

I know the H&H factory loads, but in most cases the H&H guns were heavier. I'll keep experimenting with this one using smokeless powder. But even with only 900fps, my gun seems to group well and the 790g bullet will take care of anything here in Wisconsin.
_________________________
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early"

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#561750 - 01/01/20 06:55 AM Re: THOMAS BLAND & SONS - "EUOPLIA" - 12GA PARADOX GUN [Re: buckstix]
SKB Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 4891
Loc: Colorado
I had a William Evans paradox built for the Westley load at 1550 fps and that was in a 8&1/4 lb gun......recoil was brutal. I had it out at the range one day and three of us shot my paradox gun and a friends Army & Navy .577 3" double, everyone agreed the .577 was more manageable in the recoil department. I am not so sure that the early black powder H&H paradox guns were heavier than your gun. I do agree that 900 fps should handle Whitetail just fine.
Steve
_________________________
http://www.bertramandco.com/

ACGG Professional metalsmith, firearms import services.

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