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Most Online1,344 Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Jim even after Teds personal attack on me at the top of page two it's still an informative thread...
One thing some' learned is that Ted is az crazy as a cOon hunting mussels in a rapid.
Old news to me...
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,345 Likes: 391
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,345 Likes: 391 |
I looked at a Reed vise advertised on Craig’s List this past weekend, mostly because it was right down the street. One full turn of the handle before there was any movement on the jaw. Shot.
Ted, this condition that seems to be excessive thread lash is very seldom an indicator of worn threads on the mainscrew (leadscrew) or the vise nut. If you flip such a vise upside down, you can easily see what causes this condition. There is typically a part on the mainscrew variously called a collar or a horse-shoe clip. This part retains the mainscrew in the vise moveable jaw/slide casting. It is usually installed in a groove on an un-threaded portion of the mainscrew. When you turn the vise handle clockwise to tighten down on something, the large shoulder at the handle end of the screw pushes the moveable jaw closed. When you turn the handle counter-clockwise to open the vise, this collar or the horse-shoe clip, and possibly a washer or bushing, bears on the inside of the moveable casting. If there is too much clearance, it can take perhaps a full turn before the jaw moves in the opposite direction. In most cases, it was probably like that from the time it was new. Different vise manufacturers use slightly differing designs. But usually a little study will tell you what modifications you need to do if this extra motion is a problem. A lot of vises do get serious abuse during their lives. It seems to happen a lot in industrial plants where heavy handed employees don't know, or just don't care, because they didn't fork out the money to buy it. Here's a short article showing some of the common ways vises end up broken. I've admitted to beating one decent vise to death. I was bending a piece of steel bar with a sledge hammer. I had been heating it red hot with an oxy-acetylene torch, but let it cool a bit too much, and wailed a bit too hard with the sledge hammer. There was no warning... it just broke. https://mivise.com/not-break-vise/
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Great article...funny how pushing in bearings is a good way to break a vise. I guess that's why they make vises and they make presses.
When I was younger (and I guess dumber) I had a truck drive shaft clamped in my first Versa Vise beating the hell out of when she snapped.
It's called learning the hard way.
Probaly would broke most any vise.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,767 Likes: 757
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,767 Likes: 757 |
Keith, If that was all that had been wrong with it, it may have been worth investigating.
But, it was shot.
The excessive lash was just part of it. The fixed jaw was narrower than the movable jaw, from years of parts being cut with an acetylene torch. The thing had been cracked, and welded. It needed jaws, and a handle, and swivel parts. If you needed a vise to sit out on a post in the weather, it would have been OK. As long as you didn’t clamp on anything you cared about.
None of my vises have any lash. Never did. I have seen threads worn to the point of too much lash, but, it might take the careers of four or five guys who don’t care about the vise to do it. That is where a lot of these old vises are, right now.
Best, Ted
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,767 Likes: 757
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,767 Likes: 757 |
Great article...funny how pushing in bearings is a good way to break a vise. I guess that's why they make vises and they make presses.
When I was younger (and I guess dumber) I had a truck drive shaft clamped in my first Versa Vise beating the hell out of when she snapped.
It's called learning the hard way.
Probaly would broke most any vise. When I press a bearing with a vise, it is because it is a little bearing, or, because the bearing is in aluminum, and might be harder to jig in the press. I have a press. But, I can jig in the vise, warm the aluminum with propane, and push the bearing without dropping anything. I’d use the press with a driveshaft. Best, Ted
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Young, dumb and full of cum laude.
Ted the Versa Vise was all I had at the time....and repairing the driveshaft stood between me and walking.
I later aquired a 50 plus pound vintage vise it eventually left here because I'm not one to let grass grow under things I don't use or have a need for.
Now I'm old, dumb and about out of cum laude.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,983 Likes: 106
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,983 Likes: 106 |
You just need summa cum laude, like Ted there jOe.
Socialism is almost the worst.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 277 Likes: 5
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 277 Likes: 5 |
Additional comments on covered lead screws: On vises with an exposed lead screw, there is generally a guide rod that keeps the two jaws aligned, and, to keep the moveable jaw from spinning when rotational (sheer) forces are applied. Think putting a long piece of pipe in the jaws and bending down. All you have is that little ˝ or 5/8 inch guide rod to resist those forces, and of course the lead screw. When hammering in the vise.. ie.. Putting pins in place, removing bushings/bearing etc.… all the downward force is transmitted to the lead screw and guide rod. The only bent lead screws I’ve seen were on exposed lead screw vises.
Keep in mind .. these little vises were for the home shop/hobbyist types, and built to a price point.
Just about all manufactures who produced industrial grade vises used square slides and for good reason. As we all know, it’s very hard to rotate a square peg in a square hole, Due to the amount of surface area, square shapes are extremely resistant to rotational forces. On these vises the lead screw basically just “floats” in place, it takes no sheer force or downward force when hammering on parts in the jaws. I have never seen a bent lead screw on one of these…. Don’t know how you could bend one. In the excellent article posted by keith, most industrial grade vises included a lip or “Dynamic support” as additional support for the slide when downward forces are applied. There was also a purposeful amount of “slop” machined into these vises, so if some parts did get “tweaked” the vise would still work. I’ve seen several vises with bent slides that worked fine. Wilton “Bullet” vises deviated from the square slide and went with a round slide, these Wilton vises rely on a small ˝ inch key stock to resist rotational forces… Not sure why, as round tubes are designed to rotated in round holes. Possibly Wilton saw the keyway as a sacrificial part, much like a key in shaft/pulley set-ups. Too much force and the key will sheer. On these large industrial vises, the nut is generally the sacrificial part, cheap and easily replaced.
Last edited by Mike Hunter; 11/20/19 11:37 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,767 Likes: 757
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,767 Likes: 757 |
I don’t believe the key in a Wilton is designed to shear. It is a little too substantial for that. It is also as long as the jaw opening. Not that an enterprising idiot couldn’t do that, if, that was his actual goal. The “slop” is minimal in a round bar, and I’m guessing that is why Wilton builds them that way. None of the square bar vises are as snug, moving in and out. I do believe many vises end up getting put to uses that they are too small to be expected to do. You should buy one bigger than you think you will need, same as your gun safe, or, air compressor. If you are going to pound on a vise, you really need a post vise, or, an anvil. The anvil on most vises is there to do light straightening, or to separates parts that are interference fit with a love tap or two. What surprised me this week was not what is not available, but, what still is. You can buy a new US made post vise, a new welders vise, or, an anvil from Milwaukee Tool and Equipment. They have an anvil that weighs 500 pounds, if you need a big one. Brand, spanking, new. The offset engineers vise that was cataloged by Wilton until 2004 (think Salvador Dali designs a vise) is still produced by Dawn in Australia, who can also supply you with a stainless steel vise, or, a forged steel vise. Or, heaven forbid, a vise warranted to be unbreakable. Most guys buy used, however. Vises, as a rule of thumb, last more than a lifetime.
Best, Ted
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 476 Likes: 69
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 476 Likes: 69 |
Round holes with well fitting round bars are easy to produce, that’s why Wilton makes them so.
A.M. Little Bespoke Gunmakers LLC. Mineola, TX Michael08TDK@yahoo.com 682-554-0044
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