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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,463 Likes: 212
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,463 Likes: 212 |
Only guessing for fun here. When Daryl noted the large diameter, it seemed like it was meant for one of the old .44 cartridges. A dip or tumble lube would likely be good as those seem to generally be low pressure and velocity.
It looks to be a purpose built mold, maybe from scrap, there wouldn't seem to be a reason for the threaded hole on the face of the female mold face. The sprue plate, handle components and bulk of the mold don't seem to have an antique origin.
Since I'm guessing on the mold, maybe, someone cobbled up a few brass tubing case walls grafted on to the head of a close donor cartridge. It's a short little bullet, likely for a revolver cartridge or similarly chambered carbine. There's not a whole lot of bore riding surface area for paper patching. Maybe.
It doesn't look like it was used much, which might be understandable. Still, it seems like part of some setup to get an old gun shooting. If there's no taper built in, she might have been a bullet sticker, but there aren't any signs of the outside being struck much to drop bullets. Interesting to see what folks might come up with.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,271 Likes: 202
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,271 Likes: 202 |
The threaded hole in the female portion was used for the steel "lever" that you see in the following picture. I am not a rifle or pistol expert, but the mold does seem to be quite old. The numbers stamped seem to possibly indicate factory type work. Possibly the marking on the back of the male part is 74 and F6.
Last edited by Daryl Hallquist; 11/07/19 10:00 AM.
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Joined: Feb 2012
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 12 |
Vices of these types are often used in clock repair, but there is no reason why they would not be useful in any workshop handling mall metal parts.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,344 Likes: 390
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,344 Likes: 390 |
Daryl, that steel "lever" you mention is known as a sprue cutter. The hole in it would be centered over the open end of the mold, and molten lead bullet alloy is poured in. After it sets up, a mallet is used to tap the sprue cutter laterally, thus cutting off the sprue and any extra alloy on top. The tapered hole in the sprue cutter acts as a small funnel for the molten alloy, and the sharp lower edge facilitates cutting off the sprue. The cut off bit is dumped back into the melting pot.
Evidence of this sprue cutting process can be seen on most cast bullets, and on cast lead round balls. It is most often seen on the base, but this is a nose-pour type mold, so the sprue cutter is on the nose end. I kinda figured that the hole in the female face of the mold top was for the screw attaching the sprue cutter to the mold top. The maker could have drilled a blind hole, but chose to drill all the way through.
craigd, your idea of this being built to get an obsolete gun shooting again seems plausible, as does the idea that thicker walled brass tubing could have been grafted to suitable donor case heads. Some would say that's more trouble than it's worth, but certainly no worse than cobbling up shells to get an old pinfire gun shooting again. Most bullet alloy shrinks slightly as it cools, so if the inside was well polished, it probably didn't stick bullets, even without taper. Paul Matthews shows a remotely similar nose pour mold for a paper patch bullet in his book, "The Paper Jacket". The large flat nose would also provide a spot to give a little push with a dowel too. One way to know would be for Daryl to enlist a friend who does bullet casting to fire up the pot and try pouring a few.
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Most bullet alloy shrinks slightly as it cools, so if the inside was well polished, it probably didn't stick bullets, even without taper. Keith; In regard to this statement, Ross Seyfried once in an article in Handloader magazine described what he referred to as his "Magic Bullet Mould". It made a grooveless bullet for paper patching & simply involved cutting the cavity in a solid aluminum block. He simply used round bar stock & the reamer had the nose form on it with a cylindrical body. After the lead had set enough to cut the sprue the mold was inverted, given a slight tap & he said the bullet would just slide out. I have not tried it but will take his word for it, which goes right along with your statement.
Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,344 Likes: 390 |
Right Miller. This same initial shrinkage is seen when using Cerrosafe alloy to make bore or chamber casts. Cerrosafe is an alloy of bismuth, lead, tin, and cadmium which melts at under 200 degrees F. As soon as it solidifies, it shrinks slightly allowing it to be easily pushed out of the chamber. Then after an hour, it returns to 100% size, and you then have time to take your measurements. After several more hours, it grows slightly oversize. As I recall, even pure lead shrinks slightly as it cools, which is why mold-makers don't ream bullet molds to exact desired finished diameter. http://www.csalloys.com/products-cerrosafe-alloy.htmlNaturally, Cerrosafe might not shrink enough to slide out of a badly pitted chamber or bore. And if you allowed it to cool completely, it would get quite stuck too. You would have to remelt it to pour it out.
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
There are several different alloys in the "Cerro" family. In one machine shop, I worked in we used a lot of "Cerro-Bend". I am not certain just how it compares to Cerro-Safe but was very similar. Lead alloys will have different shrink rates according to their alloy. Bullets cast from the same mold of Wheel Weights & Linotype will not end up the same size. Add to that particularly with older rifles & handguns there can be a good bit of difference in actual bore sizes. Mold makers to keep down their inventory generally try to make their molds large enough to fit the max they see as being needed & depend on sizing down for the variables.
Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Jan 2004
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,721 Likes: 417 |
The good bullet mould makers will make a mould in any size you desire. Good moulds, really good ones, are one of the great benefits of modern technology. Your mould looks to be a pistol mould with a very short base, and perhaps a longer nose. Sort of odd it seems. As I understand what you are saying, the shoulder at the ogive is not so terribly uncommon. They are essentially semiwad cutters that make wonderful target bullets for short range. They also do a fairly good job of scraping away powder fouling from a previous shot rather than running over it and deforming the bullet. I have one that I had Buffalo Arms make for shooting paper patched bullets in a .45-70 lever gun. Here is another sort of similar bullet. https://www.buffaloarms.com/455-250-grn-...50rnhb-rcb57919
_________ BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 514 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 514 Likes: 13 |
Heel diameter being that much smaller could be for a copper gas check.
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