doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Matched pair but a 16 gauge and a 12 gauge?

Whitworth steel barrels appeared in 1875:

Whitworth fluid compressed steel was invented by Mr. Joseph Whitworth, who we already talked about when discussing polygonal bore rifling and the Whitworth rifle. Mr. Whitworth was the eminent mechanical engineer of his day and came up with a way of producing a stronger cast steel. His process consists of melting a steel ingot into a mold and applying pressure of up to 6 tons/sq. inch to the mold while the steel is in a liquid state. The pressure drives out all the gases and eliminates blowholes in the cast steel. It also increases the density and strength of the steel. According to W.W. Greener's book, The Gun and its Development, with the introduction of choke boring in shotgun barrels, whitworth steel was found very suitable for this process and started replacing damascus barrels, and he mentions in 1875, "Whitworth steel was giving great satisfaction for rifle barrels, a leading London gun-maker adopted it for shotgun barrels." The leading London gun-maker was Purdey & Sons, who used Whitworth steel exclusively for years after that. Use of Whitworth steel for gun-making spread to America as well and well known makers such as Parker, L.C. Smith and Lefevre were making guns using this steel, way into the 1930s.

This DGS line discussed it in 2007...Whitworth patented his compressed steel in 1874; 1st Purdey with Whitworth barrels delivered 1 Jan 1880, ordered 3 years previously.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubb...&PHPSESSID=

And by the way, the French symbol on Ronchard Cizeron's barrels in late 1890's "Acier Comprime" is directly translated from from the Whitworth patent:


This line: https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=486642&page=6

For the record, I just talked to David Trevallion (Crossed Chisels). He confirms that Purdey made at least one "pair" (#1 and #2 gun) which were 12 and 16 gauge. He also recalls a Purdey "pair" (1 &2) which were 20 and 28 bore.

I've been unsuccessful in getting Amoskeag to put me in contact with the buyer of the Reilly 12 gauge 27854, even to verify that it has the same escutcheon plate engraving.

I can just see the look on my loader's face when I tell him my "pair" is of two different bores.

I have read of shot's going to smaller, lighter guns as they aged. Or a change in quarry.
Or ordering a second identical gun years apart.

Never have seen "pair" stretched quite so far as here.

Well....I suppose they are a "pair," only because they are a number 1 and a number 2 with consecutive serial numbers with identical build characteristics (but not weight nor necessarially LoP) made for a customer. But that doesn't mean they are the classic "matched pairs" - identical guns. But It does look like Purdey, Reilly and probably others would build customers what they wanted.

I'm kind of hoping that Reilly gun 1 (SN 27853) and gun 2 (SN 27854), both built on Scott Triplex actions with 30" Whitworth steel barrels, sideclips on fences, identical engraving, etc., have a gun 3 (20 gauge) and gun 4 (28 gauge) (and in my imagination, I somehow wind up with all 4).

I've seen multi gauge "sets", identical in most regards, by WR, Boss, etc.
But never have seen them referred to as "trio's", or "garniture's"

I realize I never finished this line - for completion sake, here is the conclusion posted on the Reilly line:

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Matched pair 16 bores 27853, 27854.

Per a couple of previous lines, I bought a 16 bore Reilly SN 27853 in December 2018 from Gavin, built on a Scott Triplex action, number one of a pair. I had in my database one of Terry Buffum's guns 27854, a 12 bore with identical specs, sold 2016 at Amoskeag.

Top 27853; Bottom 27854 (from the auction house photo)


We discussed on this thread whether this might be a husband/wife "pair" - David Trevallion confirmed he'd seen Purdey #1 and #2 guns but 12 bore and 16 bore:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=557354&page=1

I despaired of Amoskeag helping track down the buyer of 27854. I finally sent Amoskeag a letter, with a stamped envelope inside containing a letter to "whom it may concern" re 27854. I asked Amoskeag to address it and forward it to the buyer (they were protecting privacy). The letter was ultimately retuned to me with a name and a Massachusetts address and "undeliverable." Internet research turned up possible matches to the name. I forwarded a second letter to one of them. After three weeks a reply!!

Our two guns, 27853 and 27854 are indeed a matched pair. His is a 16 bore, not a 12 bore. His has the identical escutcheon plate, showing the arms of Clan Urquhart from the Loc Loman area.

27583 left, 27854 right


And the Number #2 on his gun left - #1 on mine!


Small victories...but satisfying!!

And by the way, on my gun the SN on the Action Flats/water table the SN is 27553; But on the barrels, forearm, and tang behind the trigger guard 27853. Almost everyone maintains that SN stamps on the water table/action flats take precedence. In this instance, it's clearly not the case - majority wins and is supported by photographic evidence,.

Now that is some surprising good news. Happy for you. Your perseverance paid off.