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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 28
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 28 |
I own a beautiful 20 ga Fox Sterlingworth with serial number 2548xx, which, according to the serial number chart on Doubleguns is from 1917 or so. However the barrels are marked Savage Arms Corporation. Savage didn't produce the Sterlingworth until the 1930's. The serial number is all matching on the frame, trigger guard and barrel underside. Any insights.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,804 Likes: 101
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,804 Likes: 101 |
savage often replaced barrels on older fox guns that were damaged beyond repair...
Last edited by ed good; 10/13/19 07:53 PM.
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,906 Likes: 113
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,906 Likes: 113 |
Actually at some point in time, Savage initiated a policy that if a Philadelphia era Ansley H. Fox gun was sent in for repair, first they would measure the barrels and if they met their specs, they would rechamber to 2 3/4 inch and proof test them at the owners risk. If they passed they would then do the requested work. That is how we end up with Philadelphia barrels marked like this -- If the barrels didn't meet their requirements or failed proof, they would be destroyed, and Savage would fit a new set of barrels at 10% off list as a matter of customer good will. Leading to guns like this -- three-digit serial number gun. Or this early 1920s 20-gauge --
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,464 Likes: 133
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,464 Likes: 133 |
Lots of interesting variations on Sterlingworths. I owned a very late 16ga that was flat sided. Didn't have the raised panels (or bosses) on the receiver. However, it was engraved as if the panels were there. There was some speculation that the receiver may have been made for an SP (which I believe is the only flat sided Fox), then finished as a Sterlingworth as Savage was ending production of real Foxes.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,804 Likes: 101
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,804 Likes: 101 |
unusually configured fox guns could be reworks performed by savage arms when they serviced fox guns...and...about the same time savage ceased service of fox guns, their chief fox gunsmith, mitzie beiland retired...when savage sold off their stock of surplus fox parts, mitzie bought a quantity of those parts and began servicing fox guns from his home shop...he also assembled complete guns...a couple of which have passed through my hands...
i never met mitzie, but have known people who did and visited his shop in mass...anybody else here have any knowledge of mitzie and his work?
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,906 Likes: 113
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,906 Likes: 113 |
Mitzie was not above using the Philadelphia style roll-stamps on a set of obviously Chicopee Falls made barrels. I have a Wayne & Bristol Streets, very light weight, 26-inch Krupp barrel C-Grade, that Mitzie refurbished. He also added this very heavy 29 1/2 inch set of barrels with a beavertail forearm --
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 949 Likes: 284
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 949 Likes: 284 |
Researcher;
I continue to be amazed by the extent of your knowledge of the gun trade. You are a "national" treasure.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,804 Likes: 101
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,804 Likes: 101 |
researcher: to my knowledge, mitzie beiland has passed away and is unable to defend against your accusation here...by roll stamping barrels, you are suggesting that he committed fraud...curious, how is it so obvious that the barrels were role stamped by beiland?
Last edited by ed good; 10/17/19 11:49 AM.
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,375 Likes: 1318
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,375 Likes: 1318 |
Back up, ed. Dave is only saying what happened ........ what Mitzie did, not why he did it. You're being too quick to cast stones. You need to come down off your high horse, Mr. Torch.
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,804 Likes: 101
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,804 Likes: 101 |
the why is immaterial... spurious creation of factory markings is fraud...to accuse someone of fraud, without proof to back it up is...well, inexcusable...sorta like you an dis torch derangement syndrome (tds) thang...
Last edited by ed good; 10/17/19 12:14 PM.
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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