doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com W&C Sco0tt & Son Pinfire

Hi All;
I am putting up 4 old (ca 1983) black & white pictures of my W & C Scott & Son bar in wood pinfire 12 gauge. Mr John A Crawford identified this as being of A quality & built on Matthew's patent, likely between 1863/65. Two things he found of interest were that;
#1 it was the only Scott gun he had ever had reference to made on Matthew's patent. #2 it was the only Scott gun he had ever encountered which did not have a serial number.

Its Damascus barrels are 29 3/4" long, both Cylinder bored. I do not have its weight recorded. Top of the rib is marked Made for Benjamin D Kennedy, Louisville KY. Neither Birth nor Death certificates could be fond for Mr Kennedy in Louisville, but he did have a business license to operate a jewelry store for some length of time, which included the dates this gun was built.

Nice gun Miller.
Do you use it?

Thanks for posting this. A very interesting gun.

No, I have never shot it. I kept thinking I would make up a few pinfire hulls to load & take it out, but never got it done. But Hey, I've only had it around 40 years, Some things just don't need to be Rushed, LOL. Maybe someday. I was extremely Grateful to Mr Crawford for providing me with the info he did on it. He also sent me a little 44-page paperback booklet on the history of Scott, interesting reading.

Miller,

Thx for sharing this, an interesting gun indeed. I too have not seen a Scott without a serial number.

The book Crawford [and Watley] wrote was a 1st edition judging by the number of pages you referenced. The 2nd has 92, and is hard bound. Hard to believe only on book was ever written on Scott, given their incredible history and importance to firearms development.

NDG

Nudge;
I bought this gun at a show in Nashville TN, way back when the TN Gun Collector's Assoc put on a decent show. I acquired it from a collector who was from Louisville. He had attempted to look up records on Mr Kennedy but all he was able to find was the Business License to operate a Jewelry store in Louisville.

A few ye3ars later a notice was put out in the American Rifleman that Mr Crawford would like to hear from anyone who owned an old W&C Scott gun & he would do basic research on it for free. As I recall he requested pictures in B&W, so I took these & sent them to him along with a written description.

He sent me back a two-page letter on it & seemed to be quite enthralled with my gun. He also sent along the complimentary paper-back Autographed booklet. I do not know if the slightly larger hard-back addition was already in print or not. I believe I have seen that it has a serial number chart in it. This would not have helped me with my gun though. This booklet is given as being written by John A Crawford & Patrick G Whatley & published by the W&C ScottInformation Service of Corvallis Oregon & has the 1983 date as does Mr Crawford's letter, so I know for sure when this info was received.

The first edition of Crawford�s book, �W. & C.Scott Gunmakers� was first published in 1982 and a second edition in 1985, reprinted in 1991. It sounds to me you have the original 1982 edition because in the preface of the second edition Crawford speaks of a greatly expanded book. Holland & Holland commissioned the book, having purchased the Scott business in 1985.

Yes Joe, those dates jibe with what's printed inside the cover of my copies, both of which are the 1991 2nd edition reprints published in the U.K.

Its a fine book, complete with serial number DOM estimates. I recall even Boothroyd referenced the book.

NDG

Joe & Nudge;
Thanks for the catalog info. Obviously, as I received mine in 1983 I would have the 1982 edition.
the foreword is written by Patrick G Whatley & dated 1982 but the book itself carries a 1983 date. I presume this would have been the actual printing date & not an edition date.

Mr Whatley was listed as Managing Director of W&C Scott at the time. It would appear that Mr Crawforrd was never an employee of Scott but was a very dedicated collector of their guns & did much research on them. Mr Whatley in his foreword gives him the credit for most of the work done in providing the info on the company history for the book.

W W Greener in "The Gun & Its Development" mentioned that Matthews was the first to use a side swinging top lever, but stated it was rather crude. He indicated it preceded 1860, though Mr Crawford gives its patent date as 1863. Some could well have been made prior to the patent being issued. He does not state on what gun it was first used.

I do not see it as being overly strong, though on the Scott workmanship is far from being "Crude". It is a center pivot lever as opposed to the side pivot of the early Westley Richards guns. It does not have the vertical spindle as does the Scott Spindle which was patented in 1865.