doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Rethinking Guild Guns....

Larry, I see what you mean, but not every maker of unmarked guns was in the guild...in fact every guildsman proudly signed their name...what's the point of attaining this position if you can't use the status of acomplishment to convey quality of workmanship?

Face it, the whole "guild gun" concept is erred...it's a misnomer...plain and simple...

in fact most unmarked Belgian double shotguns were produced by Pieper and ML...Most Piepers (95%+) are JABC..and Henri Pieper was a guildsman...Most ML guns are of very high quality, and ML was a publicly owned company and whole companies cannot be guildsmem...

nearly every pre-war Francotte, Lebeau, Masquelier, Bury, some Dumoulin, Paul Scholberg, Theate, Laloux, Deforney, Mainwaring, Branquaert, Bodson, Breakers, Christophe, Lepage, Forgeron, Thonon, Vendrix, Rousseaux, and Donkier were ML (ebauche) based

some Dumoulins, Janssens, and Ancion Marx were Pieper based

It's the same thing and the VERY SAME guys that tell people that Aubrey shotguns were actually produced by L C Smith...You can talk 'til the cows come home, I will never get the ficticious connection between Aubrey and Smith...or Crecent and L C Smith...I don't care how many people believe it...

Gosh, Lowelly, checking out must be a bitch for the rich. How could Heaven ever equal swell digs with all the toys and time to use them?

jack

Larry, Here's your proof...the dealers who call their guns "guild guns" are always selling them...if YOU try to sell them the very same gun, they say it's just an unmarked hardware store gun...

Here's a better example...

My cousin is a Browning collector...after examining several Browning BAR sporting rifles, he asked a fine reputable Browning dealer, Bill Buis, "since there is no markings (other than caliber) on the clips, how do you tell a Belgian clip from a Japanese clip?" Bill replied "it's easy, if your buying it, it's Jap, if your selling it, it's Belgian"

Them ol'beans are going south Rabbit, where its hot all the time.
You must step on a bunch of little people to get those things.
When they go to the light - it'll be like a bare lightbulb.

If they are unmarked, then how do you know who made them?

Pete

Pete,
By the touch marks first and foremost...For example, I recently bought a "guild gun" with no name...I didn't even have to consult my materials to know that the tiny "LV" touchmark was that of Louis Vendrix....

Pieper based guns can be recognized by not only a unique way of fitting the sidelocks (in many cases), but by the cheese hard steels they used...Cresent shotguns came with 75 different names, but you don't need to carry a list to recognize one...you can just smell the cheese...

Who is ML?

And what does "based" mean? Does mean they were started by ML and then finished by one of the houses?

What is a finishing house? Are you saying that most of the big-name retailers were just finishing off guns that were being made by the trade?

Thanks for the info.

OWD

MANUFACTURE LIEGEOISE D’ARMES A FEU of Liege. Trademark a crowned ML in an oval.
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/art...%20feu%20gb.htm

Were there really that many craftsmen?

The number of guild guns still around seems to be many times the number of men that actually became masters, had to make a complete gun to do so, and earned the right to put their name on a gun.

Sir Cecil Herstlet, His Britannic Majesty's Counsul General in Belgium reported in 1906 "About 156,000 double-barrelled damascus guns per year" were being produced in Liege.