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#546515 - 05/23/19 05:54 PM Re: "The Southern" Chamber Burst [Re: Hammergun]
HomelessjOe Offline
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Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 14381
Loc: The Great State of Tennessee
The process is called Mother time and Father neglect.

The corrosion is evident in the picture...what caused it loose rib ?

Fact is this forum isn't just for people shooting old guns...take Dr. Drew he just likes to talk about shooting old guns.

I've owned, shot and hunted with more than my share of 100 year old plus guns...one day I just decided to get out before one blew up in my face.
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NEVER ANOTHER DIME TO DAVE as long as he locks threads and removes posts.

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#546527 - 05/23/19 08:27 PM Re: "The Southern" Chamber Burst [Re: HomelessjOe]
JHJ Offline
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Registered: 01/01/02
Posts: 232
Loc: Central SC
Originally Posted By: [censored]
The process is called Mother time and Father neglect.

The corrosion is evident in the picture...what caused it loose rib ?

Fact is this forum isn't just for people shooting old guns...take Dr. Drew he just likes to talk about shooting old guns.

I've owned, shot and hunted with more than my share of 100 year old plus guns...one day I just decided to get out before one blew up in my face.
Yeah. Me too. Over 100 years, who knows what some maniac had put through those barrels.


Edited by JHJ (05/23/19 08:30 PM)

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#546528 - 05/23/19 09:12 PM Re: "The Southern" Chamber Burst [Re: Drew Hause]
2-piper Offline
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Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 12743
Loc: Lynchburg TN
My favorite guns which I shot the most were all in the 100+-year-old category. I'm not able to shoot much anymore, now being in my third round of treatments for DLBCL, (Diffuse Large B Cell, Lymphoma,) This is a Non-Hodgkins type.

At this point, I am not too concerned about one of my 100+-year-old guns doing me in. If one did that just might be a better way to go, With My Boots On as the old Cowboys used to say.
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I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra

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#546531 - 05/23/19 09:33 PM Re: "The Southern" Chamber Burst [Re: 2-piper]
JHJ Offline
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Registered: 01/01/02
Posts: 232
Loc: Central SC
Originally Posted By: 2-piper
My favorite guns which I shot the most were all in the 100+-year-old category. I'm not able to shoot much anymore, now being in my third round of treatments for DLBCL, (Diffuse Large B Cell, Lymphoma,) This is a Non-Hodgkins type.

At this point, I am not too concerned about one of my 100+-year-old guns doing me in. If one did that just might be a better way to go, With My Boots On as the old Cowboys used to say.
I'll keep you in my prayers. Im so very sorry you still fighting this.


Edited by JHJ (05/23/19 09:36 PM)

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#546553 - 05/24/19 08:01 AM Re: "The Southern" Chamber Burst [Re: Drew Hause]
2-piper Offline
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Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 12743
Loc: Lynchburg TN
JHJ;
Thanks for the concern & Prayers. My post may have sounded as if I were in a state of depression, actually, I am in quite High Spirits.

I have started a study group, just call me the Guinea Pig, at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville TN. Although I have not regained a lot of strength lost when I went through Chemo beginning in Oct of 2017 for these first two treatments at least I do not seem to be losing any more.

My Grandson came up a few weeks ago & we got out in the yard & did some shooting, mostly .22s but I did shoot his MI Rifle which I had not fired one of these a quite a few years. The .22s we shot were a low wall Win 1885 chambered in .22 short or long, we shot shorts. The other was a little Win bolt action single shot model 04A chambered for the long rifle.

I am just too much at risk of falling though, to scramble around these old TN hillsides as I used to do.
_________________________
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra

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#546555 - 05/24/19 08:17 AM Re: "The Southern" Chamber Burst [Re: 2-piper]
HomelessjOe Offline
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Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 14381
Loc: The Great State of Tennessee
Hang in there Mr.Miller
_________________________
NEVER ANOTHER DIME TO DAVE as long as he locks threads and removes posts.

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#546566 - 05/24/19 09:50 AM Re: "The Southern" Chamber Burst [Re: Drew Hause]
L. Brown Offline
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Registered: 01/01/02
Posts: 10746
Loc: Iowa
Drive on, Doc Drew. More great stuff. You are the Sherlock Holmes of doublegunshop.

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#546581 - 05/24/19 01:32 PM Re: "The Southern" Chamber Burst [Re: Drew Hause]
Drew Hause Offline
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Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 7847
Loc: AZ but dreaming of KS
Good news from METL. They were able to harvest a good section of the barrel. Should have photomicrographs next week.

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#547574 - 06/04/19 04:54 PM Re: "The Southern" Chamber Burst [Re: Drew Hause]
Drew Hause Offline
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Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 7847
Loc: AZ but dreaming of KS
Report just arrived from METL

To remind us, Dewey Vicknair's labels



The cut section



The initiation point



METL's summary as bold bullet points

• The fracture surface near the center of the barrel wall showed quasi-cleavage and transgranular brittle fracture. The inner and outer diameter surfaces displayed ductile dimpling features, indicative of overload.

• Ductile dimpling was observed along the inner and outer diameters of the barrel as well as near the suspected initiation site. No microscopic indicators of fatigue were observed.

• The suspected initiation site showed a large cavity surrounded by what appeared to be voids left by inclusions.


Initiation point cleavage. No low cycle fatigue striations.



• The braze was extensively contaminated, particularly near the suspected initiation site.
• The contamination in the braze was ferrous and appeared to be heavily oxidized.

"The braze was examined at high magnifications. The region where contamination was observed was consistent with ferrous, oxidized debris. The braze material was consistent with a copper-zinc braze filler. Substantial contamination was observed throughout the inner braze surface. Cross-sections from the good and bad braze areas were taken and showed substantial difference in compositions between the braze material and the contaminated regions."


Oxidized debris = burned steel

Good braze



Bad braze with manganese sulfide inclusions



Oxidized steel with inclusions



Unanswered questions:

Would the chamber have burst without the over-pressure shell?

Is the top rib extension wedge brazed to the thin medial barrel wall a design defect, or was this a manufacturing error?

Did the use of 2 3/4” shells in a 2 9/16” chamber add to the over-pressure?
The once fired Cheddite hulls are a full 2 3/4”. Sherman Bell's study of 2 3/4” shells in 2 1/2” chambers with a 7/16” forcing cone showed a rise in pressure from 228 psi to 1216 psi compared to 2 3/4” chambers with a 1” forcing cone.

More thoughts to follow. Feel free to contribute meaningful opinions.

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#547583 - 06/04/19 07:30 PM Re: "The Southern" Chamber Burst [Re: Drew Hause]
craigd Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 6430
[quote=Drew Hause].....Is the top rib extension wedge brazed to the thin medial barrel wall a design defect, or was this a manufacturing error?.....[quote]
Only curious, with all the comments about oxidation, was any thought given to the possibility that changes happened to the gun over the last many decades? Rather than all the oxidation being inherent to this gun, could plain old rust have altered once sound material or exacerbated once inconsequential inclusions?

If it’s inherent, any thought about what to look for? Great batch of follow up pictures and comments. Thanks much Doc Drew.

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