doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Herter's shotgun shells

I've never used Herter's shells, and would be very reluctant to do so after reviewing an incident that occurred this past weekend at the Southern Side x Side. A shooter was using Herter's shells in his 16-bore Field Grade Smith when his right chamber exploded. The explosion burst the top of the chamber in this original and high condition gun. There was no evidence of an obstruction or any existing damage to the gun that would have caused this rupture. The recovered shell showed a 3/8" wide missing section or gap along the top of the hull from the base of the shell head to the end of the plastic case. From the visual examination it appeared this shell was simply overloaded and exploded inside the chamber. The chamber was ripped open and showed a void at least 1 1/2" wide along the top of the chamber wall with the tear stopping at the forcing cone. With the exception of the barrels the gun was not damaged and still opened and closed smoothly, locking shut like a bank vault. Metal shards from the explosion were ejected upwards away from the shooter and all bystanders, so fortunately no one was injured; but a really good gun was ruined by what, in my opinion, was a heavily overloaded shell.

And we all assume that all empty shells and remaining loaded shells were retained, the loaded shells to be dismantled one at a time and all components examined and weighed. I know that's quite a stretch, since we've never heard of anyone doing that examination after a discharge accident.

They shot fine in my Darne R10 16, but not in my M12. They'd go bang, but it took two hands to shuck the fired hull. And not so hot in my M37's.

Many of those steel based shells are like that. Steel expands on firing and stays put whereas brass expands and then contracts to a certain degree. So, the steel based hulls have more tendency to stick, esp in guns with tight chambers, as opposed to brass based shells. I reminisce about the good old days where real brass based hulls was all you got. Seems like the only premium competition shells with brass nowadays are Remington STS and Winchester AA. Federal just puked out going from brass to steel. Let�s hope Win and Rem don�t.

My experience is that difficult extraction with steel headed shells is more often encountered with generous chambers than tight ones.

Expansion into extractor grooves is common.

Sharp and narrow extractors as found on many older repeaters does not help either. Nor does a rough chamber.

This is not a problem exclusive to older guns either. Mossberg guns of current manufacture sometimes have problems with steel headed shells right out of the box. I was trapped in a duck blind for a weekend with a friend shooting a brand new 3 1/2" Mossberg and we drove each fired shell out with a stick.

That said, the Herters and other euro brands loaded in Cheddite and Fiocchi hulls run fine in 'most' guns.

My Italian made automatics love the stuff.

I bought a new 870 SuperMag to use with steel for ducks. First trip with it I took it to a snipe field and shot RGL's. It choked on RGL's. Ironically, Winchester promo loads did fine. Both steel headed.

I have shot Herter's shells from Cabelas in 12, 16, 20 and 28 for at least five years now with never a single problem. I have used the 20's, both 2.75s and 3 inch, in my doubles and semi-autos with nary a hiccup. The 16's were fired in a Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen (current new model), again with nary a problem. The 28's from a Dickinson with no problems in firing or ejecting from any of the aforementioned guns. I think they were a great buy for the money.

�A Blow-Up Post-Mortem� was published in The Double Gun & Single Shot Journal, Vol. 27, Issue 3, p. 17, 2016 and is summarized here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZnptAPvQIlWG5n5UU2FmKcFpYtVmOSc4b7K7G9IBs4g/edit

Tom: could you please let the owner of the gun know that I would be very interested in examining the remains, the shell used at the burst, and as Bill suggested any shells from the same box that he might have retained. The probably cause might be established simply by examining for evidence of chamber/forcing cone lengthening.
He can contact me at drewhausemd@yahoo.com

The questions he might consider:

Exact chamber and forcing cone length

Exact chamber dimensions. The entrance to the chambers of c. 1900 12g U.S. doubles is usually .809� -.812�, tapering to .795� - .798�.

Exact bore dimensions

Is there pitting in the chamber, forcing cones, or just past the cones?

Is there evidence of chamber and/or forcing cone lengthening?

Minimal wall thickness at the end of the chamber

Minimal wall thickness at the forcing cone

Minimal wall thickness around the burst edges

Does the burst barrel appear to have a �ring bulge�? Is the rib lifted?

Confirmation that the load was factory? Which load? If not, what was the reload recipe and the expertise of the reloader?

Is there visual evidence of over-pressure on the remains of the shell? Extractor imprint on the brass? Cratered primer?

Did the shooter notice anything abnormal the previous shot through the burst barrel? Sound? Recoil? Was the target broken?

Currently, the "best buy" in 12 gauge shot shells is Academy Sports. Either $50 or $55 per case; and they pay shipping on orders over $100. No FFL needed. If anyone is aware of a less expensive source, please post.

What about low cost 16 gauge ammo?