doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Difference between new/old AA's

I am near borderline safe pressures on a load for 12 ga Damascus guns and am a little concerned about the "new" vs "old" AA hulls. I understand the new hulls generate higher pressures with the same loads vs. the older hulls. Just to make sure I can discern the difference between the two, are the newer hulls visually different? Some are gray, I know those are newer. But do some of the newer red hulls have little or no marking on the outside and are maybe glossy? The older ones seem to have the large AA and have a duller appearance. Thank you!

The new ones are definitely more glossy and I think a little brighter red then the old ones. The gray new ones are a dark gray, where the old ones were a silver gray. Also when you look into the new hull, you will see a plastic cup that is also the same color as the hull, that sticks up off of the base about 3/4"? . It is secured by the primer pocket. Once you have to hulls side my side, you will see the difference. The lettering on the hull to me is of little help, they seem to change them at will anyhow.

Two easy methods of inspection: 1) "candle" them. Hold hull in front of a bright incandescent bulb. You will see greater translucency above the base wad. Approx. 1/2" long area above brass base will appear darker. Works best with red AAs; sometimes a particularly opaque batch of plastic will make seeing the dark ring of the base wad harder. The older cf AA's do not have the doubling of the hull wall in base wad area and are entirely translucent down to the brass base. 2) Stick an awl, penknife blade, pencil or screwdriver into the mouth of hull and down. The end of the instrument will contact the shoulder of the base wad in the new AAs. You won't find this discontinuity on the interior of the older hull. The bright red vs. dull orange/red plastic composition may be a general giveaway also; I think I'd rather look inside, poke inside, or illuminate from outside. Incidentally, Accurate Arms reloading manual has low-pressure loads for both "AA style" (which most of us take to be the cf hull) and the gray Supersports. Course this premises that you're interested in loading Accurate's Solo 1000 or Nitro 100. If you're not certain about the construction of the hull, section one with a knife and have a look; all will be revealed.

jack

Shotgun Sports magazine has an article on them. I can scan it and send it to you if you want Gil. Is your email the same?

New AAs are glossy and smooth. New gray is dark, old AAs are silver. Old AAs surface has wave-like texture, not slick and shiny, probably from the compression forming process.

may want to check out this site for opinions and info also

http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/thread.cfm?threadid=80262&messages=3

I looked at it and found this: Subject: Finally saw the AA basewad problem in person!
From: john wall
Email: johnrwall@comcast.net
Date: Wed, Jan 04, 2006 - 08:29 PM CT
Website Address:

after collecting a mason jar full of AA basewads from our clubground's downrange, i have stopped picking them up and only load the few old style AA's i get from time to time. if the basewads are in the same area as the hulls, that is one thing. when they are downrange of the stations, that is another. to each, his own. i like remmy and federal hulls. ONE PIECE HULLS RULE!
Does anyone believe this guy knows what he is talking about? I don't. I e-mailed him and asked him politely to send me a picture of some of them.

I got a response from John. He was a bit indignant at the suggestion he might be mistaken about what he clams to have collected. He also strangely "disposed of them some time ago" and admits to using the shells regularly now, for reloading, although he carefully inspects them. I quit using them myself, a few years ago. If I had "picked up a Mason Jar full of these runaway base wads I surely would have kept them. If nothing else, send them to Winchester. They surely would have been interested. I would not use them again, ever. Winchester surely shot themselves in both feet, by switching from the gold standard of reloadable shells to scary crap that most shooters now throw away.

Have you considered using the Federal paper hulls? They are perhaps the largest volume paper hull still readily available. Generally speaking, large hull volume makes for easier to load low pressure loads. How may rounds do you load as low pressure for Damascus? If you cannot source any in your area and the requisite quantity is not too great, PM me w/a physical addy and I'll send you some gratis. Once fired paper Fed hulls are good for two reloads with smokeless at normal pressures. A third loading, while sometimes possible is usually best not bothered with. Paper hulls also smell correct after firing, much better than the plastiques;-) Stick to published data, there is plenty around or contact the powder mfg. directly and ask what they have pressure data for using their powder and the Fed paper hulls.

BTW, hull volume in the old & new AA 12's is the same, so I wouldn't get overly concerned with sorting. The new ones crimp a bit better and the old ones last a bit longer, that's my take on the dif.

Kind regards,
tw

The really old AAs were a one piece hull. Ever since they went to a two piece hull I haven't really noticed the difference shooting-wise, but I have noticed that the new AAs eventually split down the side. They malfunction in this manner before anything else for me. I just shoot them one more time (if I have already reloaded them), then discard them. You shouldn't have any difficulty pressure -wise, Gil, if you stay within the safe standards given in your reloaders manuals. I still have a whole garbage bag full of the old AA one piece hulls out in the garage and I am saving them for what? And probably a thousand+ once or twice fired AAs, STS, Nitro, and Federal. I just load them all the same way and shoot. Never could tell the difference.