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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 11
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 11 |
Refinishing a pre '64 Winchester 94. I know the nickel steel may be part of the problem, but it doesn't seem likely due to results. Barrel came out flawless, receiver is the problem. It is now nicely blued, but has streak that I can't get rid of. I had it totally blued once, but, because of streaks, I resanded and started over. I'm now at the same point. For information, I am degreasing with denatured alcohol after each carding. I am using Laurel Mountain Barrel Brown solution. I will mention that this is not my first attempt at rust bluing, as I have done at least 50 mixed rifles, shotguns, and handguns by this method. It is driving me crazy, so any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 909 Likes: 43
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 909 Likes: 43 |
Where is the streak? it is possible oil is migrating out of the barrel threads. If that's where it is use a heat gun on the joint till no oil is seen.
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 11
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Boxlock
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 11 |
Nope, streaks on both sides of reciver, flat area. I'm sure no oil got on it, and I have degreased with denatured alcohol after carding each time.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,465 Likes: 207
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,465 Likes: 207 |
treeman, I like acetone better than alcohol for degreasing. If you think the problem is oil, you might try applying the solution with 0000 steel wool( degrease the steel wool with acetone first). If you card with a wire wheel that has been used for something else, degrease it with acetone also. None of that may work but worth a try. BTW be sure you have even coverage with the solution. Mike
Last edited by Der Ami; 03/22/19 10:37 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,124 Likes: 195
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,124 Likes: 195 |
There is one sure way of removing oil or grease from metal, I have never found it to ever fail. Though you must be extremely careful using it because in high concentrations it can produce serious Caustic burns extremely quickly. The use of a very strong warm solution of Sodium Hydroxide more commonly named Caustic soda, this is not to be confused with Sodium Carbonate common name Washing Soda. This Caustic Soda mixture saponifies oil and grease that can sometimes be difficult to remove using Alcohol or Petroleum spirits from metals.
The only lessons in my life I truly did learn from where the ones I paid for!
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 150 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 150 Likes: 2 |
Have had pretty good luck boiling parts in paint store Tri-Sodium Phosphate (TSP). Rinse well. Not as nasty as Sodium Hydroxide (Lye). Chuck
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 11
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 11 |
I've always used alcohol and never had a problem. I don't think it's an oil residue problem, and think it has to do with the nickel steel. I was hoping someone had experience with the pre 64 Winchester receivers.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,465 Likes: 207
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,465 Likes: 207 |
Brownell's Gunsmith's Kinks shows several solutions to the problem, but I don't think any are for rust blueing.
Last edited by Der Ami; 03/21/19 05:18 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 277 Likes: 5
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 277 Likes: 5 |
Winchester 1894 receivers are not made of nickel steel, you're doing something wrong.
I degrease using TSP in a crock pot, crank it on high and let it sit for a couple of hours.
OBTW, Winchester receivers were not rust blued, they were charcoal, Carbonia or Du-Lite blued depending on period of manufacture.
Respectfully
Mike
Last edited by Mike Hunter; 03/21/19 03:59 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,851 Likes: 150
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,851 Likes: 150 |
You may be seeing forging lines in the metal. Dark streaks that appear from that process usually on the earlier made frames. I don't know what the technical term for them is. But they show up on the Winchester L/A and others.
There should be no need to 'degrease' with the alcohol after every carding. It's either clean or it's not when you start. If you are dragging oil or grease onto the surface by way of a contaminated carding wheel or even some how contaminated application swab,,clean up that situation and leave the clean metal alone. The more you fiddle with the surfaces you are trying to blue, the more chance there is of introducing something to spoil the bluing.
Another thing to check is the blue soln itself. LMF is good stuff. But NEVER wet your swab out of the main bottle and NEVER pour any unused soln from a job back into it. Pour a small amt to be used for a job out into a separate container and work from that. Any contamination will be kept there and not spread to the entire bottle. Not pouring unused soln back in saves the main bottle from the same fate.
It keeps you from accidently tipping the man bottle over while working with it too and losing most of it on the bench. A screw cap plastic med bottle works well for keeping the smaller amt. I still keep the left over from a job in that pill bottle and use it to blue screws and pins if I need too but never for a 'job'. More often I use the Express Blue left over for the small screw and pin stuff anyway.
Check what you are using for an application swab too. Some fabics have a softner, fresh scent or sizing washed into them and that can blend with the bluing soln as you are applying it and cause streaks. Even old shirt material that's 'washed out' still has been laundered and that last cleaning means laundry soap of some kind. They all have softeners, scent and pretty stuff in them and that stays in the fabric. Paper toweling bits can do the same thing.
A small flat plain soft paint brush works well for application. Squeeze out most of the soln so you don't get runs and it goes on nice and even.
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