doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Charles Daly / Lindner

I recently purchased the 10 ga. Charles Daly hammer gun that had been listed on GI. I usually carry hammerless guns so this was a big change for me. To be honest, I know nothing about this gun other than I had a lot of fun knocking down a few pheasants with it last weekend. A couple of years ago I posted pictures of an Ivers Johnson / Simson on this forum and a few knowledgeable members determined that it had been produced in 1922, but that gun had a lot of markings. The only markings that I have found on this hammer gun are the crossed pistols with a crown over them, and the serial number, 1567. Is this a HAL gun, and do you have an idea when it was manufactured? Jeff

That would have been in the 1st Lindner series & not the 2nd series w/ the HAL. A rough guess would have been the early 1880s. What initials are close to the lower rib, EE, RS??

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Wow! You're really good. Those initials are so small I never noticed them before. It is definitely not EE, but it could be RS. I can't find my magnifying glass, so I used two pairs of "readers". What does the RS mean? By the way... nice to hear from you again. Jeff

Actually, it looks more like KS, but let's face it, it's pretty small print.

Could easily be KS, where the highest probability is associated w/ Karl Streng....

"R.S. – Robert Schlegelmilch until 1923 and the possibility of Richard Schüler thereafter

E.E. – Emil Eckholdt beginning in 1876, at some point used “EES”- Emil Eckholdt Suhl

K.S. - Karl Streng & Company of Goldlauter

Suhler Waffenfabrik Schlegelmilch & Metzner existed until 1901 and then Suhler Waffenfabrik Robert Schlegelmilch was formed and existed until 1923. Seeing Robert Schlegelmilch examples in the 1912-1923 period suggest that he was active during this period and Daly doubles with proof dates in 1924 just might be his work. He did source the tube making to the Kelber boys as did many others during this period mainly due to economics. Post 1923 the possibility exists that the "R.S." initials could easily be for Richard Schüler seeing there is documentation that links Schoverling, Daly & Gales with Richard Schüler."

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post182138


"All of these H.A. Lindner subcontractors, including Karl Streng & Co., seemed to be specialists in the field of tubes, tube harmonics, etc. & that the term "Mehrlaufgewehre", or multi-barrel weapons, is associated w/ their name. Then again, what else would expect concerning H.A. Lindner as he would not have applied his Quality Control Stamp to his wares had it not have been so. And Charles Daly assumed so....."

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post510849

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Wow! I'm always amazed at how much you know about these guns and their history. So does this mean that Lindner made the gun, but the barrel work was subbed out to Karl Streng? It seems like I read once that in this area it was common to sub out many of the components to various "specialists". I'll have to try to digest all of this after work tonight. Thanks again for your help, and if we ever meet, I'll certainly buy you a drink. Jeff

Yeah, in short a cottage industry. Daly placed the order w/ Lindner, who had a small contingent of mechanics in one floor of his 3 story home. Components either went or were sourced from the Best of the Best Suhl area mechanics that also hung out their gunmaking shingle @ the same time as Lindner. Higher echelon Lindner-Daly offerings were more than likely made in a special room within the Sauer plant. Then I am under the impression that all pass thru the Lindner shop where upon inspection, Lindner applied his Quality Seal of Approval, Crossed Sidearms surmounted by a Crown. Then the example set sail for the U.S. of A. to Daly, who had the pulse of the American Sportsman.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Nice! You mentioned that the gun was probably manufactured in the early 1880's. When it was imported, would there be records anywhere? By the way.... when the gun was delivered to my gunsmith, he opened it up and the mechanisms (bridles) where absolutely beautiful. I can't imagine how anyone could produce such beautiful parts, given the tools of that era. I guess those guys were pretty handy with a file. Wow!

I'll hold you to the standing of a libation. Now there is a cobbled together Daly pamphlet peddled by GGCA that very well might be of interest to you.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Thanks! I think I already have Daly pamphlet. A couple years ago I bought a 1911 Charles Daly 185, and I think I bought the pamphlet back them. I'll check one of the many "piles" in my basement. Thanks for all of the help. Jeff

Raimey,

What is the current thinking on the early Daly guns with the Scott serial numbers? Are we considering them an initial serial number sequence, yet attributing them to Georg? Or are we considering them to be not "Lindner Daly's without the crossed pistols and crown and are saying they were made or shepherded by someone else?

Ken

Separate serial number sequence. Yes supposition is that S,D&G placed an order w/ Georg Lindner & he made the subcontractor selections. Then in 1874 where there was a changin' of the guard, H.A. Lindner stepped into the shoes as a prime & he seemed to source from mechanics who hung out their gunmaking shingle during the same period. More than likely he was classmates w/ those with whom he sourced?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

That's what I thought. So, we can consider Lindner Daly's to comprise three serial number sequences as well as three generations of Lindners.

Yes. Charles Daly went to Birmingham & they belittled his American Sportsman longarm idea so he purchased gestecks/parts kits & shipped them to Suhl where Georg Lindner & subs completed the longarms to Daly's whims. Daly by the way had the pulse of the American Sportsman.

Georg Lindner
H.A. Lindner
Ernst Lindner(short term...)

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...&PHPSESSID=

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, thanks for the links on threads like this to some of the old Lindner threads. I'd never find them on my own but fascinating reading.

Ask any time Canvas-Back & I'll gladly resurrect an old thread. I typically embed a unique searchable term. I too fancy re-reading the old Daly threads, especially those with Daly aficionados who made a substantial contribution to the Daly effort & have gone on before us.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Seven months ago you guys gave me some great information regarding my newly purchased Charles Daly 10 ga. Hammer gun. I'm really enjoying this gun. In June I shot it at the NE SxS classic at Hausmann's Hidden Hollow, and in September, I once again returned to Hausemann's for the Vintagers Event. I've also taken it duck hunting the last two weekends. On Sunday the 13th, I shot 3 woodies, 2 gadwalls and 1 mallard. On Saturday the 19th I shot 1 woodie and 2 black ducks. #6 shot Bismuth works great. Unfortunately, I seem to have forgotten how to post pictures.