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Joined: Aug 2018
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 305 Likes: 7 |
I am working on a couple low value projects to learn on. I have a Lefever Nitro special receiver and a barrel that I want to fit up. I would appreciate some help on next steps. The barrel has little to no sideways movement but when closed the barrels do not want to lay flat on the water table. The chamber end of the barrel does not touch the breach face anywhere but is very close. See following pics. On the next picture my intuition would be to flatten out the area @ B with the rest of the barrel flat but not sure if it is B or the shaded part of the hook that is keeping it from laying all the way down Here is what the inside or the receiver channel looks like. Feel free to give your wealth of experience and knowledge. I appreciate the help here. If there are some written references for this or video links I would appreciate the input. Many Thanks Travis
Last edited by Travis S; 02/14/19 05:51 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 11
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 11 |
It looks to me like the barrel is touching the breech face at the lower right in the next to last photo. Blacken the breech end of the barrels and the surface that meets the water table. I've used inletting black, candle black and medium and fine grit stones to very carefully stone the high spots. I'm certainly not an expert but I've built a number of nice flintlocks and restocked and rehabbed a few nice old SxSs using classic gunmaker techniques.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,171 Likes: 1157
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,171 Likes: 1157 |
Travis, a properly fitted barrel set flat shouldn't touch the action flat, except just a wee bit at the front, closer to the hinge pin. Done right, light should show at the rear portion of the barrel flat/action flat relationship. This allows for a "settling in" which definitely will occur, even with the best of barrel fitting.
Striving for as much contact between the barrel breech faces and the standing breech as possible s critical. Few gunsmiths can do this properly. I have done the job, myself, and can say that it is extremely tedious work. It doesn't always work out, and even a good fitter will have too start over sometimes to get it just right. Many claim to be barrel fitters but few can do it really right. I have had some very bad experiences with nationally known and recommended double gunsmiths with barrel fitting. One gun came back with about 35% contact at the breech on one barrel and NONE on the other, daylight showing strongly from top to bottom. And this was from a 'smith whose name has been thrown around on here as being a master 'smith, for many years. Not.
Good luck with it. You can't go too slowly and you can't be too careful. You re very wise to practice this craft on inexpensive guns.
SRH
Last edited by Stan; 02/13/19 11:04 PM.
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 305 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 305 Likes: 7 |
What Is the maximum gap or recommended gap between the table and barrel flat closest to the breach face?
would this relation between the barrel flat and table be best adjusted by removing hook metal or barrel flat metal or is there some standard evaluation method to make that determination?
I apologize for all the questions I googled and googled first but to no avail.
Thanks again
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,995 Likes: 402
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,995 Likes: 402 |
Travis, The gap between the barrel flats and water table should be about .010", a small amount more or less is not a big deal. Often times fitting barrels from one gun to another is a compromise at best. Sometimes a perfect fit is possible, other times it is not. Much hand work originally went in to these old guns so some variation is to be expected.
From where you are at I would approach it the following way. Smoke the barrel lug, hook and breech face of the barrels to see where you have contact. I agree with Roger that it looks like the lower corner of the breech face is in contact with the receiver. If that is correct, then material will need to be removed from the hook allowing the barrels to seat deeper in to the action. If you want to post pictures of your barrels after smoking them in I can offer more specific advice. Steve
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,567 Likes: 71
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,567 Likes: 71 |
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,851 Likes: 150
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,851 Likes: 150 |
Don't work over anything especially the hook till you have established where exactly things are interfering. Smoke the bbl as others have said and carefully place it back on the frame and close it. Back it off and examine.
One thing I do see that might be a problem is that the front edge of the bbl flats is hitting the frame flat (water table) before the bbl can sit all the way down. The bbl can't pivot & wrap it's way around the bbl flat. It should come down on it. That faint line straight accross the bbl flat even with the hook is probably the impression of the front edge of the frame flat(s). It may or may not be interfering,,that's what smoking and checking the fit is all about. But it's something to look for.
Relieving the hook contour to fix that will allow the bbl to sit higher for sure. But at the expense of a sloppy hinge joint where the hinge pin is round and the hook is then oval shaped.
Go slow, look for the tiniest interference betw parts. They don't always jump out at you as large bright spots rubbed off of the smoked part.
Don't forget to check the bbl rib extension for interference in the frame cut too.
Take the extractor out of the bbls while doing the initial bbl fit. It looks like you have already,,,You want just the bbl and the frame to be fitted.
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 305 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 305 Likes: 7 |
Where can I get one of those real sooty smoke rolls that I see on the midway videos?
I have a Kerosene lamp already but the smoke thingy looks a lot more sooty
I have looked but cannot find one or how to make one.
Thanks
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 973 Likes: 23
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 973 Likes: 23 |
I use a tiki torch canister as a source of soot.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,171 Likes: 1157
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,171 Likes: 1157 |
Want me to send you a few sticks of fat lighter? I'll be glad to if you will p.m. me your address, no charge. It smokes just like the kerosene soaked stick in the video.
I use a little alcohol lamp I bought on eBay, filled with kerosene.
SRH
Last edited by Stan; 02/14/19 06:10 PM.
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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