doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com How can authenticity of Win Mdl 21 be established?

Goldilocks gauge. And I'll stick by what I said. De Gustibus...Geo

What percentage of buyers get a letter or let that be the deciding factor?

That Model 21 expert , was he from Cal. , reportedly made up his own letters. Is that good enough ?

Now THAT is very interesting to hear.

In the last 48 hours here, we have heard that fake factory authenticity letters are being produced.... rare expensive single-barrel bourbon bottles are being refilled with cheaper product... and some custom gunsmiths farm-out or sub-contract part of the work you pay them big bucks to do.

What's the world coming to?

I'm still trying to get connections and tips from SKB on how to become a farming gunsmith.

It is my understanding that the 16 and 20 (and later the 28 and .410) Model 21's are all on the same frame- a wise move that WRA developed, as compared perhaps to the many many frame sized Parker offered-- Just as in Model 12's, with the 16, 20 and 28 gauge gun all based on the same receiver size.

In 1948, my late father bought a used 12 gauge M21- field grade: SST, EJ, 28" barrels choked imp. cyl. and mod. field splinter forearm, pg. buttstock with red WRA pad- Strangely, at least to me, is that it is marked 3" chambers- nut it is NOT the M21 Duck model- I have never shot anything but 2&3/4" loads in it, since Dad gave it to me in 1980-- lots of "wear with care" but I have killed cleanly many pheasants with it-

Here's what I don't grasp about the "dealer" and the rarity of the first series (1931-1946??) M21's with two triggers and extractors-- sure, they want to "make their profit" on the buy- and that's why they lower the price on extractor -two-trigger guns when they buy them, and then mark them up to "rarity"

Following that logic, a Parker GH 20 with DT and Extractors should be "rarer" than the same 20 ga- a GHE with Parker single trigger?? Foxy

Foxy;
Two things I'll have to disagree with you on.
1st that WRA developed the idea of building different gauge guns all on the same frame. Several makers had been doing so well before the 21 was introduced. In Fact, many of those so-called parker frame sizes are not truly different frame sizes at all, only the standing breech & consequently firing pin spacing was varied to accommodate barrels of different weights.

2nd a GHE with a single trigger is rarer than a GH with double triggers, just as a double trigger 21 with extractors & splinter forend is rarer than a 21 with ejectors, beavertail & single trigger.

Thanks- I stand corrected, at least on the Parker frames-- I know that the frame depth was fairly std., the width and the dim. of the firing pin holes on centers varied from frame to frame size, and gauge. I have always thought that a No. 1 size Parker frame would measure an even 1.000" on center. Is that accurate.

I thought that as WRA brought out the M21 during the Depression, using the same frame for a 16 and a 20 gauge would be an economical move, reducing the frame inventory needed. Am I right that the M21 with extractors and double triggers retailed for about $59.95 when it first came on the market. A STT and/or AE were added, just as with Parkers, Smiths, etc.

I guess I didn't phrase my analogy properly-- mea culpa-- As the Fjestad Blue Book shows ejectors and single triggers (along with beavertailed forearms, ventilated ribs, etc.) as added value factors to a basic DT/EXT graded shotgun, condition being another caveat, of course--let me try again-- which shotgun is worth more on the market today- both guns 20 gauge with 28" barrels, open choked (no added choke tubes) - A M21 with a 20% barrel and receiver blueing, 20% original stock finish and a replacement pad, checkering worn down, pg and beavertail forearm, and with SST and ejectors- or the same M21 but with DT, EXT, splinter forearm, blueing in 90% condition, wood and checkering 95%, and original WRA logo BP-- a "safe queen" indeed.

One reason I am shy of gun dealers and brokers as their sometimes miss-leading comments about condition, ditto auction houses in their listings of up and coming firearm listings. The only "rare" thing, IMO, about a M21 made in 1933- is its age or vintage, and I cannot see paying a premium to a dealer for that factor. But, I usually buy my guns (used) to keep and shoot, and not for some possible future re-sale at a profit.

Today's used gun market doesn't warrant such speculation, look at the prices pre-1964 Model 70's and Model 12's bring. I don't seriously consider the M21 market, as I have one I inherited, and do not, at age 77, really plan to invest in another one. RWTF

I do not believe the Win 16 and 20 share the same frame.
Has anyone seen a 16/20 gauge 2 barrel set?
I suppose if I'm wrong, someone will be along shortly.

Best Holiday wishes to all.
A Happy and Healthy New Year.

fOx I never knew you were in the Winchester 21 Cult....