doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Thoughts on this Purdey 12 gauge

Erik-

I would not begin to suggest that Kirk Merrington in ANY way does anything but proper work. The guns he has sleeved for me are marked as such and I have never known him to be anything but honest.

al

I find it hard to believe a sleeved gun could pass the eye of a gun man undetected.
Let's see if the price goes down ?

Some of you guys are to hung up on Purdey and Holland shotguns. I have personally owned one. As long as you are not going to shoot them much they are ok. If you plan to shot it alot, it will be in the shop alot. I have a guy that I am friends with and we hunting together each November. He owns several Purdeys and Holland, not beaters either, some of the Purdey o/us he has paid over 6 figures for. (O/U small gauge set)Generally he has a least two in the shop for repair work, because they stop working. This was also the same for a personal client I knew in Mississippi. He shot mucho bang bang! Everyday. As he had a small vineyard and range on it. James Flynn (gunsmith) had Purdeys and Hollands of Chris in his shop on a regular basis,for repairs. They just do not hold up well on heavy shooting. Kind of like the old joke about the olderer English cars. You could tell if someone owned one by the old slick in the driveways. Now Chris shot alot but the guy I hunt with, does not shoot everday. But on a regular basis. If you buy one I can certainlly give you the names of two good gunsmiths who can keep the working!! John

I have had a lot of good guns, but I have not had a lot of good gunsmiths. John, you are a lucky man. I won't ask you the names. Every time I get a name, he get sick, dies, gets way far behind, or starts hitting the bottle. Don't bother to give me any names. It is the kiss of death.

John:

Ditto on the English doubleguns.
Regarding the cars, I believe you are referring to a Jaguar. You have to have 2 in order to be able to drive one: one for parts and the other to drive. I have a Range Rover and if it is running, it is bleeding fluid of some sort.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

So, I guess y'all are saying to pass on the H&H Range Rover?

kd:
If you would consider a Holland & Holland I recently saw a nice backaction 12 with 2" chambers. I know the smith that has the gun and he already has received confirmation from H&H that the gun has original wall thickness and has not been altered. It is proofed for 15/16 oz and weighs 5 lbs 9 oz - the weight it was when it left the factory 75 or 80 years ago. Maybe 50% case color left. I want to say the fellow is asking $17,500.

Nice gun if the shot charge and backaction works for you.

Chicago Mike

They don't hold up well on heavy shooting?

Please - tell that to the people who used to put thousands of rounds a week through them shooting driven game back in England's golden era.

Back then, those old guns were being shot more in a single season than we shoot today in ten seasons.

The problem with most old Brit stuff is that it has been messed with by incompetent 'smiths, ignorant owners, and greedy dealers.

And btw - where are all the 75 year old Spanish & Italian guns? Hell, where are the 50 or 30 year old ones? Some are out there - Berettas, etc - but not many. Why? Because most of them don't last that long.

OWD

Some of those old guns were shot that much. Driven shooting with a name sidelock has always been a very expensive proposition in England, and one that has been available to commoners only since the very end of the industrial revolution. Those that were shooting their guns that much unquestionably had access and the financial means to consult the actual builders for the required yearly service, not just the corner gunsmith.

There are, of course, 75 year old Spanish and Italian guns, that have lasted that long because they were good guns, just not many of them are here. Further, wars on the continent tended to be affairs that involved the overrunning of countries involved in them, and the Spanish had only sorted out their civil war as the festivities from WWII grew heated. Neither of these bode well for a long, uninterupted civilian gun making history. Yes, the English may have built more, but there are wonderful 80 year old Italian and Spanish guns, as well as Prussian, French, Russian, Austrian, Belgian and what-have-you. Deny this, and look foolish at one's own risk.

The blanket assesment of the English sidelock being in disrepair all the time is one I have heard before, but, might be unfair labeling from this part of the world. The very great majority of those guns in service in this country may never have seen the correct ammunition or a decent gunsmith. Further, a self opening ejector sidelock of game gun dimensions is a complicated design that may have been forced into service here for which it wasn't intended. The duck was king in north America at the turn of the century, and freezing overnights in a saltwater sinkbox, loaded with potent waterfowl loads, was the last place an English, sub 7 lb self opening ejector gamegun needed to be.

In fairness, I have heard the same thing about Spanish copies of English sidelock designs. I imagine the same factors could apply.

Kirk Merrington is not required by US law here to mark a gun as sleeved-he does do it if the customer requests it-the customer is the inspector here, not a proof house. That debate aside, I have no question that any sleeving work he has done would pass English proof, including the visual inspection, since the man was apprenticed at Hollands as a barrel maker, worked the trade for years over there, and has a firm grasp of what will pass English proof, and what won't. To imply that his work here in the US should always be stamped or labeled with nomenclature related to English proof laws is unrealistic-the customer determines that. Barrels sleeved by Kirk here in the states are not required by law to be marked, or to pass English proof, so why should they be marked with any form of English required proof house stamping? That action implies something that isn't the case. His barrel work is more than good enough to stand alone.

You may want to keep that in mind, Eightbore. I doubt Kirk is going anywhere, anytime soon. One of the best, quick turnaround, sober, and he is all ours. I can report that he is just as good on other quality guns from Europe, in addition to English made-although, in my case, he may have fixed a French gun or two with clenched teeth, the work was always superb!
Best,
Ted

There is a 12B Purdey hammergun on the new arrivals page at Williamlarkinmoore.com that might be worth a look.