doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com C. Stiegele Jun. Cape Gun

ligonierbill,
I'll look and see what I can find.
Mike

Thanks. The seller is sending me a box of Buffalo Arms 11.7x51R ammo that he apparently received when he bought the gun. He never fired it, but 6 rounds were fired. Doesn't mean it is the correct caliber. Measuring the fired cases will tell me a lot, assuming they were fired from this gun.

ligonierbill,
Great, you have it then.
Mike

Maybe I have it, maybe not. The dimensions are not exact (yes, I compensated for Cerrosafe expansion) and I still wonder why a Bayrische gunmaker would chamber a Danish round. The seller guessed 1892 manufacture date, so could be. I will report when I find out more, but any suggestions are much appreciated.

ligonierbill,
The Danish round was the first one I found but held back for the same concerns you have, especially that it is not a German or Austrian cartridge. It is often difficult to reliably find the nominal cartridge for an old black powder rifle. Everyone was still learning at the beginning of the self contained cartridge era. It seems they left a lot of room for black powder fouling the bullet diameter is almost always smaller than even bore diameter, much less groove diameter( they counted on soft lead bullets "slugging up"). This is compounded by having to compare cartridge dimensions to the chamber dimensions gleaned from chamber casts. Even modern cartridges have to be smaller than the chamber, otherwise they won't enter it. There might be a German cartridge for your rifle, but I haven't found it in Dixon. I often tell people that as long as you can find or make bullets and cases that fit, you can call it what ever you want; you aren't going to ask for the ammo at the "Mall Mart". I guess it is possible the gun was made for a foreign customer.
Mike

I'm not very experienced in ammunition, but all elder Stiegele rifles I can find, are in 11,15x60R!?

Gunwolf

I took the B�chsflinte to the range this morning. Fired 5 of the 11.7x51R Buffalo Arms rounds. These are reformed 348 Win cases loaded with 0.459 395 gr RN over blackpowder. The sights are on, at least at 25 yards, but I didn't really shoot for group. Like the 5 spent cases the seller sent, these changed in only one dimension. Case mouth OD went from 0.483 to 0.488. A 0.458 bullet meant for 45-70 slides into the fired case. So, whatever the specified caliber, I think I can reload using the fired cases, no resize, and maybe a 0.460 bullet hand seated over black and a taper crimp. BA sells a 0.460 400 gr hollow base bullet. It may not be the Danish round, I don't think it is, but I can fire form cases from it. Should do for a deer, don't ya think!

ligonierbill,
It sounds like you have your problem solved. Older 45-70s often take larger than .458" bullets, often up to .462". Your idea to try .460" seems fine; if you are not satisfied you might try a little larger. Sure, it will do for deer.
Mike

Yes and maybe you can neck size the brass with a 45 Colt carbide die or maybe even the seater die??

Yeah, I think that might work. Ordered the bullets (actually 405 gr) and a 45 taper crimp die from Buffalo Arms.