doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shooting Damascus barrel ?

First, while there were a Few Chambers cut for an undersize brass shell so the wad would not have tp be oversize, the vast majority of brass shells were made to fit a standard chamber, no difference at all in chamber dimensions.

Many early makers of guns if brass shells were specified bored their barrels over for the larger wads. Both the special shells & oversize wads were soon found to be un-necessary & fell by the wayside.

For a given thickness drawn brass is inherently stronger than turned brass. The turned brass shells may, or may not, have enough extra thickness to make them stronger than the drawn shells. All of my brass shell use has been with drawn shells. The oversize wads ti fit are Much, Much more economical than the turned cases.

Don't recall there being a problem in muzzle loader days & they used no case at all. Used an original I Hollis 12 gauge quite a bit with anywhere from 1 oz to 1� oz with an equal volume of 2FG black. Back when I was shooting it the most DuPont black powder was about the only Kid on the Block. It was still made up in Wilmington Delaware as I recall.

I would not count on the case walls adding much if any strength to the chamber. As already pointed out Max pressure does occur In the Chamber area, it peaking some distance down the barrel is an Old Wives tale which should have been laid to rest at least a century ago. Te gunmakers new it for when they started building guns for smokeless they Beefed up the chamber walls, not the walls further down. Powder curve graphs drawn from tests run in the 1920's show it plainly. These have been posted here many times.

You answered your own concerns...

Now ask yourself is the cool factor worth the risk of life, limb or eYe ball ?

Good condition damascus is just as safe if not safer than early fluid steel barrels. Have your tubes checked by a knowledgeable doublegun smith, feed them an appropriate diet of low pressure shells and enjoy.

The reasons for all the warnings regarding damascus tubes are well documented. The goal of the firearms manufactures then and today is still the same....sell NEW guns.

Ignore j0e....he shoots a Bennelli.

If the barrels check out and you want to still error on the side of caution, just shoot 2.5� low pressure loads such as RSTs. Done.

Steve brings up a good point about selling new guns.

To me, firearms are a lot like cars. Why buy new when there are SO many used ones out there. And most guns last longer than cars anyway. A lot longer.

There are a lot of nitro proof British Damascus guns out there. Some even have 2.75" chambers. If you find a nice one , let me know so I can buy it and save someone from blowing themselves up.

No one here can accurately answer your questions without knowing the condition of your barrels. Age alone does not appear to deteriorate Damascus barrels, but severe deep pitting, dents extending into the bores, and inadequate barrel wall thickness certainly does. The presence of any pits, dents, or thin walls is also more critical the closer they are to the breech end of the barrels.

There is tons of evidence that sound Damascus is safe to shoot with appropriate loads. But that is my opinion based upon my own experience. What you decide is entirely up to you.

Normal brass shells, or paper, or plastic do expand to seal the chamber and direct gasses down the barrel instead of leaking past the shell and hitting the shooter in the face. Then they rebound enough to permit extraction. Even if you made extra thick brass shells, you will still have peak, or very near peak pressure exerting force upon the barrel as soon as the wad passes the end of your shell and entering the forcing cone. But then, depending upon the thickness of your custom brass shells, you could also have undersized wads entering the forcing cones, and possible gas blow-by that would cause a reduction in pressure and a disruption in the ballistics. Of course, some folks are happy with the performance of sub-gauge inserts, but I have no personal experience with them.

Short answer... just have the barrels evaluated by someone competent and experienced in this area. Not just any gunsmith can do this. Some who don't know better are of the opinion that all Damascus is junk, suitable only for making table lamps. They might advise you to scrap a perfectly good and safe gun. If a competent gunsmith experienced with evaluating Damascus barrels says the barrels are sound, then shoot them with RST's or similar low pressure loads. Otherwise, retire the gun and buy something safe to shoot.

I saved this story from a previous DGS post about Reilly's from a few years past...re Damascus and shooting duck loads...from a story by Terry Weiland:

Six months later, I got a call. It was Edy: "Next time you're in town, I've got a gun you need to see."

It was another old English masterpiece, of a type I had heard about but never seen. A George Gibbs of Bristol, with the strange "Gibbs & Pitt's Patent" boxlock (circa 1873), a tumbler-block safety and a snap underlever. Damascus barrels, 28 inches long, and a total weight of six pounds, eight ounces. Lively as a puppy, with a French walnut stock that is eminently drool-worthy.

"Where on Earth did you find this?"

"The owner read about the Reilly and remembered he had this. He wants it refurbished."

The story of the Gibbs was simple, but with a twist. Its owner wanted it both refurbished and nitro-proofed, which would require sending it to England. It has lovely Damascus barrels, and the action is tight as it can be, even after 130 years. So Edy asked about its history. Seems the man's uncle gave him the gun when he was a teenager, 40-some years ago.

Did he ever shoot it? "Oh, yes," he'd replied. "I hunted ducks with it for years."
As the full import of that statement dawned, Edy asked, "Ducks? What with?"
To which the owner shrugged, "Canucks and Imperials, mostly."

Gulp!

For decades the ancient Gibbs with its Damascus barrels and 2 1/2-inch chambers had steadfastly digested a diet of the notorious CIL high-brass, 2 3/4-inch full-throttle duck loads, with nary a hitch. And it's still tight, tight, tight.

"What did you tell him?"

"I said, 'Forget nitro-proofing. This gun has nothing left to prove, to anyone.'"

To prove his point, Edy took it to the skeet range and shot a couple of rounds and reported that it is "lively; my Lord, it's lively.

For every old Damascus or Twist barrel you here about "Blowing Up" you'll here a thousand stories similar to this one. Plus most of those which did blow was through some act of carelessness or pure stupidity. Examples are a double charge of fast powder or more apt to be an obstruction such as mud or snow in the barrel.

I have a lovely old 16-16-8x58 Sauer Drilling (1907) which was blown by Snow in the bore, at least that's what the gentleman who brought it back from WWII thought. He was rabbit hunting in the snow & it does have all the appearances of an obstructional burst.

It has Krupp Steel barrels so mat'l is not the major factor in those cases.

I love old guns, but there is a reason to buy new occasionally. Like when you can buy something new that is impossible to find used. I have an Italian double being built to my specs. It is virtually impossible to find used what I ordered........ a 30 " barreled .410 S x S, auto ejectors, with my stock dimensions. How many used ones have you seen?

SRH