doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com L C Smith. Field Grade.

Gentlemen,

It's evident that many of you know nothing about Hunter Arms and L.C. Smith double guns, you shoot off you mouth attacking me personally and give no engineering analysis for your uneducated opinions. I advise you again to watch the Double Gun Videos The L.C. Smith Sidekick Shotgun and learn something about L.C. Smith Shotguns, that goes for the guns smith you guys think so highly of also.

It is evident that some of you also know even less about the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights, than you do about L.C. Smith Shotguns.

Geo. Newbern,

Man you have a good memory, that was 18 Plus years ago, when he reformatted I never started posting again. The computer I used back them is long gone.

Hope all is well with you, and L.C. Smith Shotguns are still the best ever made!

Ryman Gun Dog
L.C. Smith Man

The idea that Dewey Vicknair doesn't know anything about gunsmithing or L. C. Smith shotguns is about like saying Leonardo DaVinci or Michaelanglo didn't know anything about painting. There are very few gunsmiths who ever reach his level of skill.

My Syracuse and D.M. Lefevers aren't perfect, and neither are my L.C. Smith's, Parkers, or Fox guns. Even Best Quality Hollands, Purdeys, and Boss guns have their problems, and that is why there are gunsmiths who make a living fixing those problems. Drive a Ford or a Rolls Royce long enough, and both end up in the junkyard.

Not to worry, I like mine pretty well:



12ga Specialty with 32" barrels...Geo

Keith,

Dewey V seems to be some kind of God to you people, in our mountains Freddie Brunner and a couple others were the Master Gun Makers who did all our work.

No gun is absolutely perfect, just different in engineering, I like LeFever guns also, for a Box Lock they are real nice guns.

Keith I taught the US Constitution, with the NRA Speakers Bureau for many years, introducing Charlton Heston in may different places thru out the country.

King Brown and Ed Good have no idea what they are talking about, the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution as individual rights that limit the power of the federal government. The 2nd Amendment is and always will be an individual right. The founders letters and documents explain all this, "The great object is that every man be armed... Everyone who is able may have a gun. - Patrick Henry "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always posses arms and be taught alike, especially when young how to use them - Richard Henry Lee

There is absolutely no doubt about what the founders intent was when they wrote the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution. Progressives have been trying to undermine the 2nd Amendment ever sense it was written. The 2nd Amendment is the Law of the land. Liberal Progressive like Bill Clinton down thru time have been trying to rewrite history to complete their own agenda, in reality the founders wanted the citizens to be as well armed as the government that served them.

In reality no form of gun control is compatible with the US Constitution and the 2nd Amendment.

Ryman Gun Dog
L.C. Smith man

And yet I see you offering no engineering analysis that backs up your position. Quite funny. Stan and Ted seem to have you pegged.

I've not seen any of your handiwork nor that of any of the smiths you recommend so regularly. But I have followed Dewey Vicknair's work and worked with a number of other highly skilled smiths. Anyone who thinks Vicknair needs to educate himself further about L.C Smiths in order to see the light about what a fantastic gun the Elsie is, is clearly too biased to even have a conversation with.

I'll throw my Lindner Daly, my Lovena or my Manufrance Ideal up against your L C Smith anytime for being well engineered and I don't even have to think about which was more finely crafted.

I like a whole bunch of different guns but I'm not so silly as to imagine that a factory made American gun, which has well documented design flaws, is the be all and end all of SxS shotguns.

Thanks for your support of the 2nd Amendment Dave. Without the minority of gun owners who fight to keep it, we probably wouldn't be here arguing which gun is better.

You should check out Dewey Vicknair's work. He's a Pennsylvania boy, and there is no question he's a Master Gun Maker. In fact, he really is a gun maker, not simply a gunsmith. He sometimes starts out with blocks of steel and walnut, and builds functioning works of art from scratch. Not only are his designs aesthetically pleasing, i.e. gorgeous, but he often uses his own designs and engineering improvements instead of simply copying what others have designed. He appears to be as talented working wood as he is working steel, when so many craftsmen are specialists who only excel at one or the other.

He used to post here on this site, but decided he'd had enough, so he left us. I sure miss his posts and photos, and wish he'd come back. For those of us who do some of our own gunsmithing, he was an inspiration to try harder and do better.

I had Nick Makinson's video for many years, and while it is a well made introduction to the LC Smith, disassembling and reassembling it, Makinson's opinion is not without flaw. He and I once talked on the phone, as I encouraged him to make this same type video on other makes of guns. During the course of the conversation I asked his opinion as to why Smiths crack behind the tail of the lockplate with more regularity than other sidelocks. He said that they don't and that such cracks are caused by allowing the hand pin to loosen.

Well, as much as I respect Nick's abilities, he is wrong about that. There is an inherent flaw in the design, that leaves too little wood in the head of the stock for recoil absorption. That, coupled with close, tight inletting of the tail of the lockplate results in it acting as a wedge, pushing the upper and lower parts of the grip area apart and causing the splits, which always begin in the lock inlet and panel at the rear of the lockplate.

Sure, there are Smiths around that have been shot a good bit that aren't cracked. Some pieces of walnut are denser than others and are less prone to crushing of the wood in the small recoil bearing area of the stock head. I have a fine specimen of the L C Smith gun, that I enjoy shooting at doves and crows. The wood is not oil soaked at all, and the hand pin never was loose, but it cracked with me on both sides after shooting several hundred rounds through it, some 1 oz., some 1 1/8 oz. loads. It's been repaired by Jim Kelly, but the tiny cracks are still visible.

I DO know something about the engineering and proper upkeep of Smith guns, and I say that anybody who says that the LC Smith is the best gun ever made is full of ...................beans.

SRH

canvasback,

Again you fit right in with them and know little about L.C. Smith guns, in fact all the pre 1913 L.C. Smith guns were hand made, fit an finished, even the later guns manufactured on a line principle had 80% of the gun hand made, it's the only way a Brown Rotary Bolt, for each individual gun, can be made. All the Sidelock internal pieces were also made individual for each gun, the barrels were all individually fit and finished to each individual gun, swapping the barrels from on gun to another is a job for a Master Gun Maker, it must be completed by hand fit and finish.

You are high on drugs to actually believe that any of the euro guns you have listed will not eventually shoot loose, most originally came with documents telling the owner, the gun must be tuned up after each seasonal usage. Even the Boss and Purdy guns fail the longevity test. I have heard all the BS excuses before, in reality if the L.C. Smith had been produced in London, the euro/London gun makers would still be bragging about it even today, as the greatest gun engineering ever made.

Ryman Gun Dog
L.C. Smith Man

RGD, in this case, I'm happy to fit right in. I'll take the consensus opinion every time. It has the benefit of being vetted by the experiences of 1000's of owners and 100's of smiths. BTW, all guns will shoot loose eventually. The Europeans simply felt that looking after one's tools wasn't a bad idea.

I've been in Makinson's shop several times and had him work on my guns. I'm not unfamiliar with good smiths.

However, if you want to love Elsies and think they are the greatest, go ahead. To each their own. Lots of different guns to enjoy. However, constantly telling and implying the rest of us don't know our asses from second base because we don't share your enthusiasm will only generate scorn rather than the converts you wish.

I can't get all that worked up about someone being perhaps a bit too passionate about their favorite gun, car, or whatever.

To me, that's small potatoes compared to a gun guy who supports anti-gunners like Obama or Hillary. Now there's a sin that ranks almost as low as being a pedophile or drowning puppies.