doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com How are grouse populations in your area?

Actually, if history is any judge, the "my way or the highway" attitude served the United States of America very well, starting several hundred years ago.

The USA is a unique experiment in nation building. Everyone, essentially, is from somewhere else. Their culture is one they created recently (last 200 years) not one that evolved over 1500 years as is the case almost everywhere else in the world.

And "their way" caused them to rocket to the top of the pile in terms of social, political, economic and military might and influence and become the envy of the world. Some might foolishly argue with my use of the word "envy". But no other nation in the world is close in terms of chosen destination for emigration and no other nation in the world has it's society followed and copied like the US.

Yeah, I'd say "my way or the highway" works quite well for the US. That's why there is the expression "The American Way".

another potentially fine thread...now hijacked...

Gentlemen,

I did not mean to turn this thread into a Gun Rights issue for sure. Being this is a double gun forum I took it that all members agreed that owning a good bird Gun was just a fact of life.

However let me advise all members of just where I stand. I am one of the original members of Charlton Heston's NRA Speakers Bureau, a life member of the NRA and still speak from time to time. I took an oath to protect the US Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic, and enforce the UCMJ as a US Army CID Special Agent. I like civil knowledgable conversations with other sportsman no matter their views. Speaking against the NRA to me is a waste of time, People kill People, guns are a tool like any other, except they provide the means to our countries freedom. The 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution is the law of the land, I remind everyone of my oath.

Grouse numbers have been falling in most places because of the limited logging practices and high predator numbers in most states, including ours here in Pa. I am also an RGS member, I use to be a RGS Sponsor, guide and spokesman, however I am just a regular member now, due to the internal politics of the RGS organization. Having been a member sense the early 60's I have watched RGS evolve into a complete Conservation Organization, rather than just using Conservation as a tool, to make sure that Grouse numbers were always high enough for us Sportsman to Hunt. The organization's original charter mandate has been hi-jacked and made into a Conservation Group. Many of the old time RGS Grouse hunting members have quit the RGS organization, including former executives, because of this evolution. I dropped out for a while myself, then rejoined as a regular year to year member.

The latest unproven WNV scare was used by the PGC to shrink Grouse season in Pa, ending the season just before Christmas. To their credit RGS did not support the season change, without actual scientific proof that the birds were being effected by WNV in the wild. IMO the PGC made a very bad move, limiting the Grouse season, especially for the small towns needing sportsman money to keep their businesses solvent.

Bill Palmer our long time Pa Professional Grouse Biologist recommended the Grouse season be extended into February, sighting the small numbers of actual Grouse hunters and that the PGC should due more of the logging that had been promised. Bill Palmer had completed a Grouse study in Potter County some years before, that proved Sport Grouse hunting had no effect on Grouse populations. In fact the open for hunting section of the forest ended up with a larger Grouse population than the closed to hunting section, that butted right up against it. Bill may have the only copy of this scientific test study still available, mine was destroyed in a home flood, the RGS's has disappeared from the HQ building some how. There maybe a copy of this RGS/PGC Grouse study buried away at the PGC, but God only knows were, doubt it will ever surface for public consumption. I learned thru experience that Grouse management is a very political entity, and the tests better show what the politicians want to see, especially here in Pa where they wanted Grouse season to be more like the New England Grouse season, ending around Christmas time. Politics has more of an effect on Grouse management and Grouse numbers, than most people realize.

Ryman Gun Dog
L.C. Smith Man

James, I can't imagine anyone having an issue with your opinion. Generosity, empathy, checks and balances, were distinctive characteristics of US development, all organic favouring democratic principles, electorates making decisions how they wanted to live, a collective responsibility---not one man's or the highway.

It's not often anyone declares "Grouse numbers have been falling in most places because of the limited logging practices . . " although it's gospel in responsible forest management. Many members of the landowner organization, of which I am president, manage their woodlands solely for wildlife to the FSC standard, appropriate clearcuts providing prime habitat for deer and grouse. Our association is fastest growing FSC group certificate in Canada, third and fourth in size and growth in North America. The provincial government turned over all its private lands responsibilities to our association in the eastern half of Nova Scotia. Forest policy is made by our members, not top-down by bureaucratic interference.

King Brown,

How are the Grouse numbers in Nova Scotia? My brother hunts up around Elk Lake each year with his best friend, what is it going to look like for this coming Grouse season?

Ryman Gun Dog
L.C. Smith Man

I haven't seen many grouse this year compared to others. It may be because of unprecedented wet spring and now heat wave for weeks. Everything seems tamped down. I'm not familiar with Elk Late---Lake? I have woods contacts everywhere and could check for numbers if I knew where it is. County good enough.

Just noted on another thread that keith seems of same mind concerning grouse habitat: " I always did much better in heavier cover, logged out areas and slashings, and especially in and near stands of wild grapevines. Grouse cover is variable, and the chain saw and logger is your friend." Arguably the most sophisticated forestry in eastern North America is on Irving-owned lands in New Brunswick and Maine---a magnet for upland grouse and woodcock hunters. An American buddy doesn't miss a year in NB with his dogs.

King Brown,

The spell checker got me again, I corrected it to Elk Lake.

Ryman Gun Dog
L.C. Smith Man

King Brown,

You made this statement earlier today:



For the second time, do you have a shred of evidence to back up that statement, or are you telling lies again?

I'm glad that you agree with me on what has been for me the most productive grouse cover. Too bad that we can't agree that support for anti-gunners is disloyal to the fraternity of gun owners, or that calls for disarming law abiding American citizens constitutes an anti-gun sentiment.

If supporting those Liberal Left Democrats who work so hard to infringe upon our Constitutional Gun Rights isn't anti-gun, then what is?

And is your woodlot management organization still engaging in large scale pulpwood clear cutting to feed the massive 60 megawatt biomass wood burning power plant at Point Tupper? I wonder what rocky mtn bill would say about the carbon footprint from that one?