doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com William Evans

I'd bet those sidelocks are Webleys as well, ask your friend if the Webley number is present. "William Evans from Purdeys" is usually found on earlier guns so the Webley # is probably on the short rib. My 400/360 Evans from 1903 has the same engraving.

If you go to NitroExpress.com on the Double Rifle photo forum there is a link to Webleys 1914 catalog, great resource.

Love that Evans Paradox.

Yes, indeed, a wonderful Paradox. I wonder if he would send it to me to dust down and babysit while he is off on his holidays. About as good as it gets, what a beautiful work of art...
Mike

Webley built a lot of boxlocks for the trade and the 20th century ones are usually built on a Rogers' pattern back-action sidelock with the screw-grip (which was patented in 1882 by Webley & Brain). the boxlock with intercepting sears is often found in guns retailled by William Evans as well as Army & Navy. Both can be very nicely finished.

William Evans boxlocks can be good value as they fetch among the lowest prices for 'London' guns - like Cogswell and Harrison do in all their grades.

A cased pair of Evans boxlock ejectors (1901) built on the Webley frame went unsold at Bonham's last week with a highest bid of £1,900 and a more highly finished cased pair (1902) built on the same frame made £5,200. I have bought Evans boxlock ejectors in need of re-jointing and cosmetic renovation for as little as £400.

Some of the double rifles retailled by Evans can be of very high quality and finish and command good prices.

I would agree with SKB about his Evans, but then again, it's not your average ble is it.
Seller of uppity guns, for the less uppish among us was ol' William.
There's not been a William Evans that hasn't caught my eye!

Mike - you are speaking of the Brand Value part of gun pricing, the part dependent on the brand of the gun. Brit guns are usually branded by the maker's name. Frequently, retailers had their name put on a trade made gun. For three guns of similar Original Quality grade with similar Current Condition level, BV1 = 1, BV2 = 0.75, and BV3 = 0.50. BV1 names are: Boss, H&H, Purdey, and Woodward. BV2 names are: Westley Richards, Dickson, Rigby, Beesley, Grant, Powell, Atkin, Churchill, Henry, Lancaster, Evans, Watson, Wilks, Greener, Boswell, Gibbs, and Lang. All other Brit names will fall into BV3. That is to say that a W & S built "Patent Top Screw Treble Grip Box Lock Hammerless With Automatic Trigger Safety" of A&W 51 grade (described as "Extra best quality and finish throughout") retailed by Army and Navy (and for sure A&N retailed such guns) would price at half what the same basic gun would if it carried the Woodward name or two thirds if it carried the Evans or Rigby name. W & S did make minor cosmedic changes to the guns to sorta keep some uniqueness among retailers.

The "A & W" series of guns came in 5 listed qualities and ranged in price from £21 to £50; ejectors and Whitworth barrels were each £8 extra. The "W&R" series, side-lock versions of the A&W's, priced at £19 to £54. The London Pattern Side-Lock Ejector, often billed as a best gun by modern day dealers, priced at £61. The Premier Hammerless Ejector, usually considered a best gun, priced at £82 and The Imperial Premier, usually considered an extra finish best gun, went for £112; £8 extra for Whitworth barrels on both.

Rocketman, thank you for the information. It's the name on the gun which matters. So that is why my Scott-made Holland and Holland is worth more than the Scott-made Cogswell and Harrison I used to have, an identical gun.
Mike

The market uses brand name as a factor in valuation. Hence, the ole' saw, "Buy the gun, not the name!" Those willing to study guns sufficiently will be able to spot a high quality gun reguardless of the brand name and have the opportunity to shoot a high quality gun for half price. However, operative word is "shoot". When it comes time to sell, the market will not increase the value because one individual shooter has noted the gun is of high quality. Markets do move, but they are usually slow - there are exceptions.

Yes, Mike, the market values more highly a gun with the brand H&H than with C&H; at once an injustice and the key to bargain shooting of fine guns.

I would relegate Westley to near the bottom of the 2nd tier, as they made many more rough and ready guns than best quality....notice I didn't say best guns!
...and for WRs drop-locks - does a gentlemen really need to see his locks? I think not!
Ditto with Wm Powell, Lancaster, Gibbs and the Watson Bros and so on - move 'em on down the line.
Rigby and Alex Henry more known for their rifles than guns.
The second tier - Atkin, Beesley, Churchill and Grant(nix the side lever tho')

Lowell, Lowell, Lowell.....when will you ever learn? Mr Gibbs made lots Best quality guns, and Powells.....read some about them. Watson Bros, another very respected maker. You may consider subscribing to a little periodical called the Double Gun and Single Shot Journal. A gent named Seyfried has been penning a bit on Westley Richards. An inovative firm to say the least. Youn need to get out and see some guns.
Steve

The Brand Value of Rocketman's system is an acknowledgement of what the market seems to value in the brand name itself. It is not necessarily a judgement about comparative quality - that is covered in his Original Quality factor, which is also considered.

Lowell, I have been reading comments like that about the Deeley & Taylor detachable locks lately but they seem tired and repititious regurgitation of other peoples' writing rather than considered comments based on experience or thoughtful reflection on the merits of the system.

The 1897 patent was useful and practical in a number of ways. The engineering advantage of having the locks placed internally and mounted on individual plates was added strength. The hole for the tumbler pivot was no longer needed and since this is drilled through the action close to the radius and in an area subject to flexing, the action was considerably strengthened by remaining solid at this point.

the second piont is that in transit in foreign lands (or indeed nowadays at home or abroad) the locks could be removed and if the gun were stolen, it would be useless. you could also leave it unattended in you house or room and if someone else got hold of it, they could not shoot you with your own gun - quaite acommon occurance even now.

The third practical reason for having quickly changeable locks is that if you were overseas or 'upcountry' on a shoot or an expedition or just a foreign posting, if a sping broke or the lock malfunctioned in any way, it could be changed by hand in seconds. A very useful option.

Bonhams just sold a .577 Westley Richards double rifle with these locks, once owned by elephant hunter James sutherland. He praised the system profusely in his books and he was a no-frills professional hunter.

Unless you have real evidence that a system is wothless, please try not to be so dismissive. It was conceived by gifted men, made in beautiful quality and offered real options that the preceding system did not.