doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com clays and old hammer guns

I purchased a damascus L.C. Smith about ten years ago. I was banned from shooting it at my sportsmans's club. "Damascus guns aren't safe". I had it proofed at the Birmingham Proof House and have a really cool certificate to show for it!
Anyway, I shoot it regularly with LP ammunition. The fellow I bought it from said he'd shot "all kinds of ammunition through it", and it still passed proof!
Wouldn't go throught he hassle of having another one proofed though. Don't ask, don't tell is my policy. I've never been questioned when shooting it at other facilities.

Craig

When I shoot my twist damascus at a club, I am a bit careful not to advertise the fact, but I have been questioned about it. When asked, I am happy to explain that I have fired "x" of rounds through it so far without a problem (now over 700 in less than 6 months), and that I am using Federal's 7/8 oz low pressure (5,000psi) loads. The shotgun I use, while old, is in a very good state of preservation and should anyone wish to check it, I hand it over to them (and several fellow shooters have been rewarded with getting a chance to shoot it).

So far, the folks I have spoken to have not given me a problem. In my limited experience I have only seen frightening mishaps resulting from poorly reloaded ammunition, so based on my limited personal experience the clubs might be better off asking folks who are shooting reloads to leave, than someone who is shooting a vintage shotgun responsibly.

As for back yard proofing, nothing is without risk, but I would not tie my shotgun to a tire and put a heavy load through it to prove anything. I am comfortable sticking to the lower pressure loads, and as was stated above, each of us has to live within our comfort zones.

By the way one of my guest shooters of this shotgun having never shot a two triggered shotgun accidentally pulled both triggers at the same time- in effect subjecting the breach and the stock to a double charge---nothing resulted except a grin on everyone's face (but mine). All that "proved" was that it did not come apart- that time. It does not mean it wouldn't come apart on the 10th or 100th round.

More likely than not my (and our) vintage shotguns have seen a number of rounds of ammunition more powerful than the designers intended. As I understand it, when a shot charge moves down a barrel it flexes the metal, so sooner or later these things wear out--shooting heavy charges (for whatever the reason) can only hasten that day.

Doug

Fluid steel or damascus can fail- the only accident I have seen was a 20 O/U that burt at the chamber of the top barrel- that was fluid steel.

My point is have a qualified person check wall thickness and shoot low pressure. That is all that is required by US standards on US guns. But the back yard method can cause damage and proves little.

I have run across far to many English and european guns that "someone" has opens the chambers to 70mm etc... I don't want to own such a piece much less shoot it. I know of one dealer selling a BP proof Grant and telling prespective buyers it is fine to shoot with modern ammo.

al

I own and shoot seven damascus hammerguns , and friends at my club shoot ten or twelve different damascus guns and no one has ever proofed, or had them proof tested. My wife and myself, who both shoot damascus guns, go through 30 to 40 boxes a week - with no problems. All a proof load proves is that the gun held up one time to extreme presures - nothing more, nothing less. Does someone really think the damascus gun held up for over a hundred years and was unsafe ? Just use a little common sense when checking it. Modern guns just like damascus guns can and do blow up if miss used. Everyone I know uses shells under 7000psi in any older gun , damascus or otherwise. Paul

Doug's point about reloads is a good one. A stuck wad is not funny and occasionally I have been in attendance on a shooter who had to be requested to inspect for occlusion after a blooper or no powder discharge. Pumpgun or autoloader + doubles + bad 1st round = disaster. You'd think one down each barrel would be perfectly safe except some guys just won't look before reloading.

jack

I luv those pics of hunters in some of those DGJ articles. Few years ago there was an aricle with pics of couple guys goose hunting using pinfire doubles with damascus barrels. Me thinks those birds were shot with Benelli or Beretta autos and the pics were staged. Gee, do you think they carried those shells in coat pockets? I think it's time to drop the act, no?

Chuck H, nice Crass, I would love to post mine, but I have problems posting pics here..(not much of a computer guy!)

I have fired several twist & damascus guns with low pressure handloads, both smokeless & black. None of these have I had proofed or attempted to proof myself, didn't really seem worth the trouble in one case or the expense in the other. I Have Strapped one gun in a tire & fired it, not proofed it. I have never fired this gun otherwise & likely never will. Why? it has a split in the side of bbl about 14" up from the breech. I bought it as a parts gun with the bbl split & a taped up stock. It is a Lefever H with "London Twist" bbls. The split followed a weld line about ¼" long on left side of left bbl. Appearance was that it had been hit on a sharp cornered object & dented in badly & then fired in that condition. This resulted in the bbl cracking along the corner & one side of the split was still pushed in, but on the other side a little flap was lifted externally (could look right through at the opposite bore wall). I put a dent plug under it, raised the internal dent & hammered the external flap down to meet & it became extremely difficult to even see. Mostly out of curiosity I strapped it to the tire to see what would happen. I fully expected it to open up at the seam, it was after all already broken. I started with factory 3¼-1 1/8 loads & put several through it. "Nothing"!! I then went to some 3 3/4-1¼ loads & put several of these through it. These were the heaviest factory loads I had so then put a few 1 3/8 oz handloads I had, Still NaDA. What did I prove? in my estimation a big fat Nothing. However it is noted none of the loads I fired were equal in pressure to a proof load, but were higher in pressure than I shoot in my twist bbls.
My question is "Still" What?? inherent damage did I do to this gun, that would not occur by having a still higher pressur proof load fired through it, even by an Official ProofMaster, with official checks.
I still will not fire this gun from the shoulder, not because of any real or imagined damage I did by firing those loads, But BECAUSE I KNOW there is a crack up there close to where my left hand would fall & it goes completely through the bbl wall. Incidently the bores were quite rough with pitting as well. The gun still locks up tight though. With the ball joint screw completely removed the dolls head still brings it tight enough on face the top lever hardly passes center. Argue all you want, no one has convinced me that doesn't re-inforce an action bar.

A relic of a pinfire and shooting geese you say Paul?
I'd watch, from a city block away.
Powder-puff loads that work in those olden things and a big fat Christmas goose don't mix.
Takes a hefty charge, and that doesn't mix with those worst for the wear barrels.

Pictures can be staged....but I'm sure a Pin-Fire gun in a hunters hands is a very capable tool.