doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com William Evans

Fact.....some people can't spot quality. All they can do is buy a name.

The gun market is made up of a very diverse range of people. On one tail of the Gausian distribution is the collector who has a passion to know everything about guns. On the other tail we find those for whom the gun is a tool for harvesting game, breaking targets or a social statement tool. Those who know they could place a sample of 20 guns in order of Original Quality are rare. So, brand name becomes a substitute factor; all you have to do is learn a few names of makers who made good guns.

Brand name reliance can get your wallet in trouble. Learning about quality as a separate item from brand can lead you to shoot at bargain pricies.

With so many guns and brand names you have to speak in general terms about a firm's over-all body of work.
A handful of top notchers out of many thousands does not pull the maker/seller up by the boot straps into another level.
There are those who think thay can point out the rare quality in a maker's line-up of also rans.
Could be, but I doubt it - nobody sees that many guns - unless your among the rich and famous and have special viewing privileges to the obscure.

Yeh Joe, you can actually buy Korean "Jaguar" or English Jaguar. To some people that stupid leaping hood ornament is worth extra 40k.
Some stupid people buy cheap chinese clothing and wonder where that rash on the back came from. I think it's those cheap dyes they use.
The "problem" with "Welchy Guy" was that unlike Atkin, Beesley, or Boss he was just a "pencil pusher" at Purdey's. Hanks guns provide most "quality bang" for the buck.

A back actioned sidelocked London gun??? The English usually like their locks and wrists slim and sexy.... the realm of the bar actioned sidelock!!! The Spanish are the ones that like their back actioned sidelocks.........more curves!!!!
All the best

"With so many guns and brand names you have to speak in general terms about a firm's over-all body of work." - spoken like a member of the middle of the market pack. That is exactly how the bulk of the market spends its money.

"A handful of top notchers out of many thousands does not pull the maker/seller up by the boot straps into another level." - the market supports this as I find that % of production of high Original Quality is a factor in Brand Value.

"There are those who think thay can point out the rare quality in a maker's line-up of also rans." - I would be one of those, Small Bore would be another, and many others here believe this about themselves.

"Could be, but I doubt it - nobody sees that many guns - unless your among the rich and famous and have special viewing privileges to the obscure." I am neither rich nor famous. I doubt that my viewing privledges are particularly special. However, I most assuredly "view" every gun I possibly can and I endever to learn something from each viewing. The market pricing method I use was designed specifically to "jump start" learning from viewing. Dig and peers view enough guns to intuitively understand the market and price from this intuition. I don't view that many guns and require a structure to get more from each viewing. I post from the method here to test it and to help anyone else needing information. I will gladly adjust the method's factors to better data.

Brand Value has a two fold influence on price. Original Quality and Current Condition each have a twenty fold influence. Guess where I think you should be spending effort to learn more!!

"With so many guns and brand names you have to speak in general terms about a firm's over-all body of work."

With all due respect for Mr. Glenthorne's considered opinions I assume he means this as a joke if in reference to Westley's.

Detailing Westley's "over-all body of work" and its past, present and future relevance to modern firearms (sporting & military) design would take a book -- a matter quite aside from the quality of its individual guns.

Oh, one will be welcome with just about anything with 2 tubes if grandpops and pops moved "in the right cicles". Your family is either in, or they are "NIXXXXED"!
What I mean is your fart still has to smell like quality cologne.

t1958 - back action sidelocks are relatively common on Brit guns, including London made/marked guns. There are a lot of W&S "W&R" series guns out there with London names on them. Identify one, have a look at the lock pin placement, and say if you can find a main spring locator pin in the lock bar. In 1914, a W&R of 1st quality would have cost £54 and had the carved leaf fences available for £2 10 0, London Stripping for £3, Whitworth barrels for £8, Patent ejectors for £8, Half-pistol hand for 10/, full pistol hand for 20/, and Engine turned or file cut rib for 8/. All the bells and whistles for £75 12 0; a Premier with Whitworth barrels going for £90.

I can hardly think of a maker who's reputation precedes themselves more than Westley Richards.
The king of the boxlocks, made many more keeper quality, for export and right from the racks than truely best quality guns.
I've seen my share, as the old Westley Richards Agency in Springfield, Mo. was only a morning's ride away.
Had a ho-hum Westley 12b ble, and a not-so-common and very handsome Westley .360 #3 case express double rifle.
WW Greener shoulda been king of the boxlocks.