doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Turkeys in Grouse habitat?

Some time back MO had lots of turkeys and few grouse. WI had lots of grouse and few Turkeys. So WI traded MO grouse for turkeys and now MO has turkey and few grouse an WI has lots of turkey and few grouse.

one of the reasons turkey, dove and deer killing is so popular among today's sedimentary couch potato type hunters, is that it requires minimal physical effort...these spectator sports fan, make believe hunters, sit on their butts waiting in ambush...whereas, real hunters are always on the move and cover many miles in pursuit of game...state game regulators dont like true pursuit hunting, because they cant control the whereabouts of the hunters...this is why grouse and quail management by state game regulators has declined in the past 30 years, nationwide...and by introducing predators, like the wild turkey, the control oriented regulators are destroying the few remaining natural upland game birds.

Hahaha... this egotistical comment comes from an "EXPERT" who can't see any problem with wildly differing claims of what constitutes a lethal dose of lead in eagles in various so-called scientific papers.

Dare to point out these glaring discrepancies to Brent, and you become the enemy because it is a terrible sin in his eyes to question some of the obvious junk science that has been used to impose lead ammunition bans.

Both but from one Keith to another wild turkeys first and jive turkey's second

Well Brent I could safely wager that those plains dwelling turkeys had little effect on ruffed grouse, yes?
Let's engage a moment. Would you agree that turkey may have an impact on ruffed grouse? A contribution to their decline?

Turkeys will populate wherever the habitat is good enough for them,

Huge populations of ruffed grouse as well. Most people's "perspective" on them is based on their population explosion due to continental clearing, huge fires, and literary ebullience.

No young forests, no ruffed grouse, burn half a state, mucho ruffed grouse to write about.

1 hedgerow, 1 plowed field, a flock of turkeys. No ruffed grouse.

I personally do not have any empirical data showing one way or the other in the turkey vs. grouse debate. All I can provide is what I have seen in the woods. Turkeys and grouse are absolutely competing in and around the grape thickets for the same food. Do I think a flock of turkeys could out-compete a few grouse for the same food in these areas? Yes. Do I think large flocks of turkeys during nesting season are roaming the woods devouring grouse young? I could not say. However, in PA we have an autumn turkey hunting season which is very much different from spring gobbler hunting. In autumn, you can hunt for either sex of turkey and the tactics are much different with a lot more stalking (and blaze orange) involved. Perhaps, this autumn turkey season may provide the opportunity to keep both populations in a sort of balance. Again, just an observation and not based on any kind of data. An additional note (and probably an obvious one) - as grouse woods age, mature and become bigger and larger hardwood stands, turkeys will thrive whereas grouse numbers will decrease. On the converse, if much of the forest is clear cut and replaced with young, dense low story tree groves and tangled greenbriar and grapevine, would the turkeys do as well as the grouse? I doubt it. However, I am not a biologist...

Why quite obviously the plains turkeys completely exterminated the Ruffed Grouse from the western plains. There isn't even a single ruff left out there anywhere...

In lieu of something like real data (which may actually exist if anyone cares to look, but who cares?), I will stick with turkeys having not more then epsilon and probably much less effect than that on ruffed grouse. Of course, epsilon is a fairly small number, so I could be wrong.

I kinda like real data, not armchair acrobatics before I pass judgement. Just a weird hang up that I have.

in nh, we have an active logging culture...lots of clear cut areas in various stages of regrowth...we are infested with many large flocks of turkeys...we have very few grouse, where they were once in abundance, before the wild turkey was introduced about 30 years ago....

as for real data...it is usually produced and manipulated by gubmint employees, with an agenda to justify their continued employment at the tax payers expense...