doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com E. M. Reilly side by side percussion shotgun

Well my eye did deceive me....that label is an 1855-59 Label in all its details except
1) no "fusils a Bascule" above the name
2) it has Gun Maker below the name not beside it, and
3) most important it is "EM REILLY & Co" not just "REILLY." That would make the label very late 1858, early 1859 after JC Reilly retired, after the company name changed to EM Reilly, before the label changed completely in design, before "Gun Manufacturers" replaced "Gun Maker" and probably before 315 Oxford Street was opened (also in 1859). Amazing!!

That's the first such label I've seen.! Sometimes when you're positive of what you're looking at, your eyes play tricks on you, and you just jump to conclusions. Sorry.

The Case label is laid out so similar to 1855-58 that I don't think it could be an 1863 outlier. Perhaps the case was in storage for a couple of years? Or perhaps the key to the major change in label design in 1859 was not the advent of the EM REILLY name, which began to be used in advertisements and on ribs in 1859, but rather the opening of 315 Oxford Street, which also occurred in 1859 but a few months later.

1) 1855-59; 2) 1859? (label for 12920); 3) generic label 1859-68, and 72-86 with variants

As I said I only have three guns with pre 1887 proof marks from England. The I Hollis & Son muzzle loader, a W Richards, 12 gauge hammer breech loader, undoubtedly made by Clabrough, & a W & C Scott 12 gauge Pin Fire.
All of these only have the gauge stamped once.

Most often the bore size will be increased between the provisional & definitive proofs. Even IF this is not the case it still doesn't explain the decimal point in front of the one marking.

OH Osthaus/Rick,

I'll let the owner know that you have some of the components in case he wants to shoot it. But I suspect not.

Yeah, nice gun and thanks all you guys for adding to the conversation. The owner will be monitoring this thread and I'm sure he wants to thank you too.

And I believe the gun may be for sale.

Jolly

Bill, per above Reilly rarely seemed to engrave fauna on his guns; he was know for foliate scroll and his engraving seemed always in good taste. I've kept photos of about 230 Reillys which have appeared in print or on the internet over the past 20 years. I've found four with fauna engraved on them (counting 12920) - I would bet this type of engraving was an option in the Reilly catalog up to the early 1870's (not the similar borders on the engraved guns 8052, 12920 and XXXXX).

8052: This is one of the last JC Reilly guns probably 1858; it has Veni Vidi Vici engraved on it which may have been JC's swan song:


Your friend's 12920 (1863)


15272 - Spring 1868 shortly after the opening of 2 Rue Scribe


SN unknown but with rue Scribe, and Paris medals on the label (1868-1871) (is that a rabbit with antlers?

Veni Vidi Vici

I Came, I Saw, I Conquered. Generally ascribed to Julius Caesar.

I am a descendant of JC Reilly and Edward Michael Reilly, they are my 3x great-grandfather and 2x great grandfather, respectively. My name is Sally Reilly.

I have very much enjoyed looking through the information that has been posted about the business, in particular, all the photos of the guns and labels.

I have a a bit of information I can add to what you have already, more about the family that the actual guns.

His granddaughter Martha Stephens explained why he came over to England in a book she wrote about her father, She wrote that he was the son of a Squire who was sent to England to study and become a barrister. She explained, �This was because Roman Catholics were not allowed in Ireland to enter any profession and there was no other course for him to be duly qualified� I assume he came over between 1805 and 1812. (I have no information about the family in Ireland)

The first record I have found for JC Reilly was his marriage to Martha Barkley, at St Andrews Holborn, on 17 May 1812. They went on to have four children, Ann b. 7th Mar 1813, Ellen or Elinor b. 30 March 1815, Edward Michael Reilly, b. 1 Sept 1817 and Charles Joseph Reilly, b. 4 July 1819. (Source: Documents held at Wiltshire and Swindon Archives).

Anne Reilly married Henry Stephens FRCS, a surgeon and ink manufacturer and they had 7 children, one of whom became an MP, and one of which wrote a booklet about her father Henry Stephens in which she refers to her mothers family, the Reilly's. In particular she mentions grandparents JC Reilly and Martha, and her Aunt Ellen. She described the marriage of Joseph and Martha as �It was a most unfortunate union for her�. We can assume this was partly due to the character of Joseph Charles Reilly as she wrote �Joseph Charles Reilly was selfish, harsh, (and) neglectful of everything but his own comfort. No one had a good word to say of him.�

Ellen never married, and spent quite a bit of time in Paris, France.

Edward Michael Reilly went into the gun making business, as you are already aware.

Charles Joseph Reilly, I believe spent some time in New York as an Agent for Stephens Ink, I have very little other information about him.

Joseph Charles Reilly�s business was obviously successful, as in 1824 whilst still living at 12 Middle Row, he bought a property called Bourne End Farm (now called Hill Green), in Cranfield, Bedfordshire for �1625.

The 1841 Census, recorded Joseph Reilly, aged 61, a Gunmaker, born in Ireland living in Holborn. Also living in the same household was Martha Reilly, aged 54, Elinor, aged 26, both born in the same county, Middlesex and Edward Reilly aged 24, a Gunmaker, not born in the same county. There was another member of the household aged 20 years, a female servant, The actual address that Joseph Charles and his family were living at was 12 Middle Row, as this is recorded on other sources, namely directories and electoral registers.

Joseph Charles moved to 502 Oxford Street, Bloomsbury, Finsbury in 1848, he held a tenancy agreement on this address from 1848 to 1860 onwards. In 1881 this was renumbered 16 New Oxford Street. This was the address he was living at on the night of the 1851 census. He claimed to be a widower. (We know this is not true, as his wife Martha was found to be living with their daughter Anne Stephens.) His occupation was Gunmaker and his birth place was recorded as Granard, Ireland. Also living with him was a servant. I think Joseph and Martha were estranged.

He moved again in 1859, taking out another tenancy agreement on 315 Oxford Street, which backed onto Salvation Army Hall.

The 1861 Census, recorded Joseph Charles Reilly, aged 73, living at Bourn End, Cranfield as head of the household. Again he claims to be a widower, which this time is correct. (We know that Martha Reilly nee Barkley died in November 1960.) His occupation was recorded as Fund holder and Land Proprietor and his birth place as Ireland, Bonin. (Not been able to find out where this is it does not seem to exist) Living with him was a young, unmarried housekeeper, aged 23, called Elizabeth May from Buckinghamshire.

Joseph Charles Reilly died on 11th January 1864, aged 79 at Cranfield, Bedfordshire. According to his death record he died of �decay of nature�, old age. Susanna Hailey was present at the death and left her mark, suggesting she was illiterate. It is likely that she was his house-keeper.

Joseph Charles was buried in the Graveyard of the Parish Church in Cranfield, Church of St Peter & Paul. He requested in his will that he wanted to be buried in 'in a plain manner and that a decent stone be placed at the head of my grave with the inscription "Joseph Charles Reilly formerly Gun Maker London�.'

I have more information about E M Reilly that I will post another day!

Sally

Sally, Thanks; see above line on Reilly, Chronology, serial numbers, etc. for response. Gene