doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Navets Volants....

Brent:
"Safety" is on in the photo. The raised bump on a thin metal strip is slid forward locking both triggers. Another identical raised bump is on the other side in the same location. It is barely visible in the photo. To fire, the bump is pulled towards the rear, in a movement opposite of a tang safety. The opposite movement by shooters habituated on tang safeties can be frustrating on unexpected shooting opportunities. I've heard that some remove the safety and load only when move into position behind pointing dogs. Loading just before shooting is probably the safest tactic regardless of shooting either type of safety and a good habit to have. Gil

Gil thanks for that photo. It definitely looks like a challenge to use in the field. Hunting pheasants over any dog, but especially a retriever would not be ideal.

Even that odd angle photo shows how nice that gun really is.The checkering borders are especially nice. I would hate to inlet that trigger bar.

Thanks, Brent. The inletting is complex and is often destroyed by folks not familiar with its idiosyncratic pitfalls.
Back in the fall I found a set of tools designed specifically for the Ideal series. From my thread in November:
"Since acquiring a couple of Manufrance Ideals, I have been looking for the Manufrance tools specially made to strip down a gun. Below is my recent acquisition sitting atop Mournetas�s photograph of the three different types made. My version is the one made after 1920. The earlier two were made in 1887 and 1896. The paddle shaped piece is to lock the cocking lever in the up position so that the stock can be removed without destroying the not quite ace of spades shaped inletting on top of the stock. All pieces fit inside the boxwood handle which has a metal slot on the face that accommodates the turnscrews and spanner tools. Gil"

I saw those tools when you posted them before. Amazing what you can scrounge up these days. I would not have guess that special tools were required to take one apart, but they are so unusual looking that it is hard to guess what the process involves. I have never actually seen a Manufrance in person. Maybe one day.

Ted and I were discussing this rather interesting, though damaged gun yesterday. I had not heard of "dispersal barrels" before. https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_C__...STING_HIGH_QUAL

Gil:
i notice the checkering on your gun is not the skipline style i am familiar with on most MF. my ideal does have skipline style and i suspect your gun is of the same era (mid-late 1930's).

your original photos don't show checkering - so i'm curious if it was restored as original, or changed to conventional checkering during the renovation.

i don't particularly like the skipline, and would certainly like to have the "missing lines" filled in. your checkering pattern is quite handsome - as is the gun....
tom

The seller of the Ideal, is proposing that the dispersal barrel would also work well with ball or slugs.

I can assure you, this would not be the case. It is for birdshot, only. The flats are clearly marked �choke� and �raye�, but, I can�t make out much more than that. I would expect that the mark �non pour la balle� appears somewhere on both tubes,

I don�t typically deal with auction houses.

Good luck.

Best,
Ted

Tom, thanks.
The checkering was badly worn and Chris Dawe of Newfoundland was given the go ahead to recut at 28 lpi. Skipline is also known as "basketweave" checkering and I find it interesting. Paradox barrels are the ones with partially rifled choke area, and as Ted mentions, were built for dispersal of lead shot, not for ball, for close in shots of woodcock and rabbits. The engraving of the Morphy gun is quite nice but one would have to live with the other issues chief of which is the "fairly sharp dent" in one barrel 10" from breech. This is in a high pressure area and I question if it could be safely remedied. Gil

Gil got his Ideal through me as have a few other members here. I have my own Ideal in 12 gauge. Originally mine had the skipline chequering done to, as near as we could figure out, 38 lpi. It was crazy fine. So fine as to be useless.

In discussions with my smith, and knowing I would be hunting the gun, when the wood was refinished we went to a standard style of chequering with 28 LPI. I know full well it's not original but it works better.

When we were discussing Gil's gun, my experience with my own highly influenced Chris's and my recommendation to Gil. These aren't collector guns....they are higher grade shooters.

Brent, as far as the safety goes, any approach is a compromise. I don't use the safety. Ever. I hunt with the gun open with two shells in the chambers and close the gun on the rise. I typically hunt the gun on open plains, when not in close quarters with other hunters and dogs. It's the best approach I have been able to come up with. I have often hunted with it in the company of another Ideal owner, so we are both very cognizant of the safety issue.

It also helps, I suppose, that I was taught to shoot by my "old school" father. Who taught me that it was foolish to ever depend on or expect a safety to be that with saves you from your own stupidity. So I have done my best, my whole life, to handle guns as though there was no safety.

You or Ted may have caught it but this gun on auction at Morphy's has the typical damage around the tang that indicates stock removal by someone who didn't know what they were doing.....never mind the through bolt.

Between the tang damage, the through bolt and the wood extension, that gun needs a restock. Too bad because I have an extra set of 12 gauge barrels in perfect condition that might have come in handy, it it could be had for the $750 opening bid. Also, as a grade 5, it has to be pre 1931.

Even in France the dispersal barrels are quite rare. Too bad.

A Dispersal & a Paradox barrel are not the same things. Paradox, as I recall, was a trademark used by Westly Richards for their "Ball Guns" with rifled chokes. They could also shoot shot but patterns were mostly at least as open as an I/C.

I have no idea IF the MF dispersal choke would be suitable fr use as a ball gun or not, perhaps so, perhaps not. Before making a decision I would want a lot more input than Ted's Negative Bias on any gun which is not a Darne.

I highly suspect the Paradox type guns have a rather thick barrel wall at the choke, the MF Dispersal likely does not which would be the item most likely to condemn it for use with a ball.
.