doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Purchasing Einstecklauf

Dilly541,
The "rim screw" you mentioned is what I called the "headspacing screw". The rim recess is radiused, usually, at the bottom. The screw is usually "square" at the bottom, so the object of the "spotfacer" I mentioned is make a "seat" to fit the screw. A seat can be made with other tools, such as scraper, graver, burr in a Dremel, etc. The main thing is to remove the radius, where the screw is( removing it completely would increase headspace). I have seen then fitted by filing the bottom of the screw where it contacts the rim recess. It worked, it's just not "elegant". As far as the notch in the extractor is concerned, you are correct that it is fairly straight forward. I suggest filing or sawing it too narrow and then "file and fit" a little at a time with a safe edge swiss file, to a close fit, before fitting the headspace/rim screw. This makes locating the area to be worked easier. Notice the "witness mark" on the EL. The clear intention is to make a corresponding one on the main extractor. Unless you drive the roll pin out, I find this unnecessary. Since the EL seems to be used, there is a fair chance that its "regulation" is not too far off. I suggest boresighting it after fitting, to see how far off it is. When(if) adjusting the POI, if it seems to impact backward from the adjustment, the adjustment may have been too much and the bullet is hitting the barrel. Don't ask how I know.

Mike

Thank you very much Mike for the detailed info. Just so I am clear on what you are describing, Let me illustrate. Here is what the insert looks like with the headspace screw bottomed out all the way.

inserted

The entire unit is flat and flush but it protrudes slightly above the chamber face.


I think the screw has been slightly filed or peened already as you can see in this picture. This would be the contact point in the chamber rim.


So, you are saying I can flatten the red area of the rim's edge to accept the screw head to allow it to sink a few thou deeper into the rim and thus fit flush?

And these would be the tools to use?


Thanks, Steve

I'm having a hell of a time with this insert and am wondering what I am doing wrong. I orient it in the barrel like so.


No matter how I adjust the contact lugs, once I tighten it, it looks as though the bullet will strike the side of the barrel. When I look down the bore, I see the choke end of the shotgun barrel. I am hesitant to modify the gun at all if the insert will never work...Thoughts?

Dilly541,
I can see how you are getting agitated, but don't worry, you will ultimately get it. You seem to understand very well, what I described. The EL was fit to another gun before, or at least someone tried. This is evidenced by the filing on the screw. With the screw bottomed out and that edge filed off, I'm perplexed that it is "standing proud". Without having it "in hand" it is a little difficult to know where the interference is. We may have to take it one step at a time, and this will take some time. Is your gun chambered for 70mm(2 3/4") or 65mm ( 2 1/2") shells? All mine were fit into 2 3/4" chambers. Lets try taking the screw all the way out, and loosening the "locking lug" all the way, and see if it will fit into the chamber-flush or below. If not, smoke the bottom part of the El with a lighter or candle, drop it back in and seat it with a little pressure. Take it out and see if there is an area of hard interference. Be sure there is no interference from the roll pin, by just pulling it "up" beforehand. Lets do this and see what we get. I'm a little bit disturbed that you can't adjust it to clear the barrel( I'm guessing you had the locking lug tight).They did make a different, special one for the left barrel and one for the "over" barrel of O/Us. See if there are any markings to indicate this on your EL. Let me know what you find.

Mike

Thanks for working with me on this Mike. I spend some more time on it today.

The gun is a 2/3/4" chamber. Its a 1960 Sauer. If I loosen or remove the rim screw, and back off the locking lugs, the insert will fall in approx. 3/16 below the face of the chamber. No issues from the lugs or ejector etc. Near as I can tell the pressure and subsequent support is on the permanent and adjustable lug bearing surfaces, along with the sliding tightener piece.

Red arrows represent the permanent and adjusting lug locations. Yellow is the tightener.

I tried swapping the adusting lugs back and forth. No change. They can be set so far up that the insert wont go in, or so far down, that it is loose. I think I have a fair range of adjustment. I tried one down one up. The insert bore direction changed, but I always saw shotgun barrel...I tried it in the left barrel...same thing. I tried it in my Blaser BBF, same but not quite as bad (shorter shotgun barrel).

SO, I got to thinking and applied some aluminum foil tape little by little on the surface where it always seemed to be raising the bore.


Here is an illustration of what happened.


So, provided I can still get some regulation adjustments from the adjusting lugs, could I be on the right path here? I will worry about getting it flush and ejector fitted later.

Steve

Dilly541,
Now, the results of that test indicates to me that you don't really have a problem, the El seem to be fine. I don't think you will need the tape. What I called the locking lug, you called the "tightener/sliding tightener piece". The two "adjustable lug bearing surfaces" should do what the tape did for you.
Leave the "tightener/sliding tightener piece" loose. Adjust the headspace with the "rim screw". It may line up so the filed area gives you the clearance you need, if not, then you can deal with the radius in the rim recess. Once you have the headspace right, deal with the slot in the extractor. Then put it into the gun and tighten it. then bore sight on a target, at whatever distance you want it sighted for. You will have to have some way to hold the gun, line the sights up on the target, then look through the El. If you can see the barrel with the target centered looking through the El., that's OK. If you have a vise, you will find it easier to hold the barrels(by the underlugs, pad with leather, etc)in the vice and line the sights up with a target. To adjust it, visualize how the El will have to move to center on the target( since you have moved the adjustable lugs, put them back to about the center).Take the El out and make the appropriate adjustments. Put it back in, bore sight again, make adjustments, keep doing this until the target is centered. Sometime during the process, tighten it in, bore sight it, tighten it tighter, bore sight it again and observe how much the sight picture changed by changing the torque. This will illustrate how important it is to install it the same way every time. Once you have it centered, take it to the range/woods and shoot it, on a target at the range you selected before. This time make your adjustments according to the bullet's point of impact. Be sure to use the set trigger and a good rest. If you get it sighted in and later remove it, check the POI when you reinstall it. If it doesn't shoot to the same place, don't get too upset, change the torque on the tightener, until it comes back. Good luck.

Mike

Ok, will do...thanks again. I hope this helps others understand how these things work as well. There is not a lot of info out there.

All fitted. took me about an hour. All I had to do was give the headspace screw a couple licks from a file and it seated nicely.




Now, to see how it shoots.

Thanks again Mike.

Dilly541,
Great, "you done good". I find Einstecklaufs very useful. I have taken Hare, Fox, Bobcats, Racoons, and Squirrels with them.

Mike

Took it to the range yesterday and monkey'd around with it. Shot the 7x65R first. Was really pleased with it. I didn't even touch the scope adjustments. Whoever set it up before me left it right where I wanted it.

5 CCB shots at 100 yds

Then I got to the insert. Really not hard to figure out. I left the tape in as it helped with the up and down. Peeled off one layer to get it to where I was happy on the vertical. Once I was there I just brought it to the right with the adjustment lugs.

This was 25yds, same point of aim on the scope. One inch square.

Really happy. While I was at the range, a guy next to me says..."I have 410 inserts that would fit that thing..."

Oh man...