doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com ATF Question

Geo needs to find a local FFL who understands the law and isn't a money grubbing dick. Gunbroker has a nationwide list of FFL dealers who will do transfers, and there were several in my area I didn't even know of, along with a wide range of prices for the exact same firearms transfer service and Instant Check if necessary. I have had several instances where an internet seller insisted upon shipping the gun to an FFL for transfer even when I can prove it is Antique. I was present when my dealer called the BATF Field Office and was informed that Antiques do not require transfer and should not be entered into his Bound Ledger Book. In these cases, my FFL accepts delivery for me and simply hands me the gun after I show him that it indeed a pre-1899 gun. He never wants any money for accepting the package, but I always tip him something as a goodwill gesture.

Stan,

You asked if it was legal. I JUST sold a pre-1899 gun, so this is all refreshed again for me.

The answer is YES according to the ATF, but NO according to the USPS. I dunno if that makes it "illegal" or simply in violation of USPS "policy"...and whether those two things are the same or not. Here's why:

1. The USPS has their own definition of what an antique is...and the way I read it, it means only muzzle-loaders. (https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_008.htm)

2. As of late 2011, all long guns must be sent via Priority EXPRESS only. (https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2011/pb22321/html/updt_001.htm)

*Note section 12.2, subsection "a"

This was baffling to me...as Priority Express makes the cost of shipping a gun get to $100+ in some cases.

3. You live in Georgia, so your state regs are probably friendly. But in NY State they have a similar definition to the USPS as to what constitutes an "antique." It CANNOT fire modern ammunition. As such one can be technically IN compliance with ATF, while NOT according to state law.

I have received a different interpretation from the NY State every time I called. Sometimes they say NY State rez can only SHIP without FFL...other times they say NO transaction in or out bound without FFL unless the gun is basically a pre-1899 muzzle loader.

And the USPS office manager I spoke to locally was similarly clear as mud. She seemed to be visably uncomfortable even saying the word "firearm" aloud, as we discussed.

I left there practically hoping the nation's electric grid would go out for 3 minths. (Hopefully, only sane people would survive.)

In all seriousness...how many people on this forum even knew that the USPS says you must ship your pre-1899 shotgun both as Registered Mail, and via Priority Express class service?

NDG

So I shipped UPS Ground, and to an FFL.

The gun is a pre-1899 SXS with twist barrels.

And the C&R buyer was not happy with having to pay a local FFL.

We both lamented the idiocy of the situation.

NDG

Nudge, I don't agree if you look at the regulation that you stated, it say's, Express mail, Registered Mail or Insured over $200 so that a signature is required.

USPS regs.

12.2 Rifles and Shotguns

[Revise renumbered 12.2 as follows:]

Except under 12.1.1d and 12.1.2, unloaded rifles and shot�guns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing under 12.1.1d. The following conditions also apply:

"a. Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when sent within the same state of mailing. These items must bear a �Return Service Requested� endorsement, and must be sent by Express Mail (�signature required� must be used at delivery) or Registered Mail, or must in�clude either insured mail service (for more than $200) requiring a signature at delivered."

So I think USPS just wants to make sure that the package is signed for and not just dropped on the porch of a house. At least that's the way I read it.

Interesting. Thanks for the replies.

SRH

Probably a customs violation...Geo

It wasn't a custom, Geo. Just a simple BLNE.

SRH

Oh, well in that case there'd probably be no problem...Geo

Stan,
Completely legal at the time and still legal under our laws. What has changed is the Australian and New Zealand post will no longer ship any guns, antique or modern, via the postal service.
Steve

In times past I had antique guns shipped directly from the UK to me by mail multiple times. Cost about $55.00 to do it. They no longer ship that way at any price I am told. I had limited paperwork on them but very little was required. You had to be able to document that they were pre- 1898 built.

I bought four guns which had been imported from The UK without any paperwork at all. Just came over in a container labeled as used household goods and antiques. Luck would have it that they all were pre 1898 so no real crime was committed. They had paid a import duty on the declared value for antiques which the guns were. Would not like to try that in today�s anti gun climate. But I just bought them from the antique dealer who opened the container and found them and then panicked. His agent bought an entire country house estate and packed all the decent stuff and shipped it to the US. The guns were part of the decent stuff.

My only mistake was selling the two double rifles quickly for what I felt was a nice profit. Last time I saw the Boswell the asking price for as 20K more than what I sold it for. Never saw the other gun on the web but I know it sold at least once since then as the buyer I sold it to has long since passed.