doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Turkey season is almost upon us.

I have seen quail once in my life. January 1993.

Quail and turkeys coexisted for a million years. I think the quail disaster has a different cause. Perhaps intestinal parasites? Turkeys can thrive in situations where quail can't. Their size make disjointed habitat no problem...Geo

Geo, what say about turkey introduction harmful to ruffed grouse populations, a debate for a generation here?

I live in a grouse-free zone. However, from what I gather, grouse target or can exist in a habitat in which a turkey wouldn't/and or couldn't venture. As for the decline of wild quail, I've heard every reason and combination of reasons from habitat destruction to fire ant predation. I suspect someone has or will soon tie the removal of rocks from the lunar surface in 1969.
Gil

I don't know how far north natural turkey habitation extended before civilization. I suspect that introductions have extended turkey range far beyond where they'd been in prehistoric times.

Certainly though ruffed grouse and turkeys have coexisted in the southern range of the grouse without causing the extinction of either species due to the presence of the other...Geo

The debate is beyond my abilities and knowledge.

I'v thought it over and decided that Gil's right; its the Moon rocks. After all 1969 was when the quail began to disappear...Geo

I spent 20 years and 100k of my own money on quail management on my land. I had four different populations of viable quail that had been steady to increasing for five years. Multiple coveys on each farm. Two of those years were extremely cold which under normal population cycles would have resulted in a big die off. I got lucky perhaps that while the number of birds carrying over was down we had two separate hatches the following year. Population was better the next year.

We had quail which wr were able to hunt and which did well. I expected them to continue doing well. But the damn State released turkeys across the road from two farms the first year of their brilliant Turkey management program. The next year they dropped them off on a farm next to mine and on my other farm without telling me. Populations of quail were about level the first year, then they dropped on the first two farms the second and were virtually destroyed by year three. I had nesting Turkeys but no quail.

It's a correlation I know but every effort to re-establish quail on those farms has failed. If I could do it I'd remove the turkeys and see if my quail make a comeback. Not going to happen. I understand from the States viewpoint turkeys are an easy sell. Big birds, easy to see in the off season and they can claim a clear management victory of wildlife. Never mind if that victory cost my poor quail their future.

Fort Stewart in Georgia is the largest military reservation east of the Mississippi River at 279,000 acres or roughly 435 square miles. The base was closed to turkey hunting until 1977. It was a nature preserve loaded with turkeys, quail and deer. I remember the days before turkey hunting was allowed it was nothing to shoot a limit of quail with good dogs. Turkeys were never re-introduced; in fact, the turkeys were cannon netted for transplant in turkey starved areas of Georgia. The military has been a good steward of the land; timber is selectively cut and the base has some of the largest stands of old growth longleaf pine in the world; not virgin, but old growth. The military burns the woods religiously, not to say virgins are put on pyres of fat lighter and set on fire in sacrifice. The quail numbers have been in decline for decades; can't blame the turkeys as their numbers are thinned out on a regular basis and they have always been there. One longtime quail hunter blames decline on Coastal Bermuda grass taking over the ranges and woods--young quail can't move through it. Coyotes, hogs, fire ants, and whatever are blamed for the decline. I don't think anyone can say for certainty, but it sure isn't overkill by hunters. I hear bobs in the spring with their signature call, but finding them in the season is another matter. Gil

That's a fair conclusion Jon, based on your experience. I'm just not sure it is scientifically correct. My quail in my personal experience were on the way out before GA even thought about turkeys. Could be the same with ruffed grouse, I don't know.

Armadillos, cow birds, fire ants, fragmentation of suitable habitat, shopping centers and subdivisions, wire-mouthed bird dogs, over shooting, unknown disease, insecticide, herbicide, and now of course Moon Rocks.

I just don't think we know or we'd fix it. Scientists are working on it. Maybe they'll find the true answer and bring back the bobwhites before we're to old to care...Geo

Later than that up this way. I had 10 big coveys on a 501 acre tract of my land in 1989.

SRH