doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com J.P. Sauer & Sohn Suhl Tell V Rifle

At the request of some of the other posters in my thread on the drilling I recently acquired, I'm posting some pictures of the J.P. Sauer Tell V rifle I acquired in the same auction lot. I didn't know these rifles even existed before I saw the auction and, now that I've received it, I've fallen in love with this little thing. 5 lbs 2 oz and beautifully trim.





Due to the marking on the top of 360/57 and the 108,49 stamp on the side, I assumed that it was a 9.3x57R/360, even though it was advertised as an 8.15x46R.





But when I tried to insert pin gauges into the bore, a .302" gauge was the largest I could fit. Preliminary measurements with inside calipers today indicate a groove measurement of .313". And inserting a straightened paper clip from the breech to the neck of the chamber measured right at 46mm, which apparently means that this is chambered in 8.15x46mm after all. In fact, if you look at the muzzle:



And at the chamber:



You can see that it appears to have been relined at one point. It's not immediately noticeable to the naked eye, you really have to look closely to see it. And there is a fair amount of wear to the rifling, so it's obviously been shot a lot in the new chambering.

The only other markings apart from serial numbers are these on the underside of the barrel underneath the forearm.



The MM appears to possibly be stamped on top of another marking. Barrelmaker or insert maker? The crown N I'm assuming is the nitro proof, but for the original 9.3 or for the 8.15? The serial number is in the 73,000 range. I can't tell from the list in this document http://bryndumlund.dk/fileadmin/template/PDF/Sauer_artikel.pdf if that means production in 1898 or 1899. That obviously means a difference to me since 1898 production means I don't have to keep it on my bound book.

I figured some of you might enjoy these pictures, and any comments, suggestions, or speculation about its history are welcome. I'm looking forward to loading for this rifle, figure I'll probably try to pick up some RWS brass rather than reform from 30-30 or 32-40 and then figure out what loads and bullets to use.

Yeah, the MM was the tube mechanic. I also see a Wildmann w/ a Club, typical Sauer trademark. Where is the "Crown N" stamp you mention.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

A Sauer example in the 73k range would have been issued a serial number in 1898.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

That's a nice little rifle with an ovate profile at the muzzle. It appears that the barrel profile is a straight ovate section that blends into a cylinder then to a short flat at the top of the breech. Very fitting for a petite rifle like this.

I have an Emil Kerner from the same time frame that is a 9.3x57/360 and, although a falling block, like your rifle it is light and handy and very likeable.

Should the barrel prove inaccurate it wouldn't take much effort to get it back to the original chambering. The liner is probably soft soldered in and 9.3 barrels are readily available now as are .360 2 1/4 Nitro Express reamers.

You're right, that is the club man. I was misreading it as a smushed crown N.

Also, right off I can't conjure a MM mechanic of Suhl so I guess the possibility exists for J.P. Sauer to source the talented target tube mechanic Max M�eller of Forstgasse 7 in Zella-Mehlis. Although the MM stamp is a bit different that some of the MM stamps I've viewed on Zella-Mehlis offerings.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Subject to seeing any proofs on the barrel flats, there is a better than even chance that it was lined in the US. Had it been done in Germany, it should carry a "repair" proof, and new caliber designation, etc. I believe a chamber cast is warranted; failing that, you could at least fire a 8.15x46R and see what the case looks like. In my mind, the MM on the barrel is why I'm not certain it was lined in the US. That is the mark of Max Moeller of Zella-Mehlis, as opined by Raimey and Suhl makers(Sauer) didn't normally use their products. (However retailers often used them.) If an 8.15x46R case fired in the rifle keeps the correct shape, I can agree it is German work, because an American would have used an available caliber.
Mike

I had thought about the possibility of the lining being done in the US, but then I would have expected something like 32-40. It certainly seems to have been relined several decades ago.

I'll try to fit an 8.15x46R case first, then maybe fire form a case to the chamber to see what the exact measurements are. I'm kind of surprised that both this rifle and the drilling have the crown B and crown U proof marks but no markings indicating bullet weight or powder charge like my M88 sporters do.

Crown over B denotes proof in the final state. Until the 1912 rules change, the voluntary proof w/ the load data was an additional cost, so it wasn't employed all the time.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse