doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Brevete 16ga info sought

I also read the AR article on the Darne the Lt Col brought back. Nothing indicated it was actually used by the Viet Cong as I recall. It was selected from a piled up heap of all types of guns in a warehouse, probably many of which were confiscated civilian guns, which this Darne likely was.

I do not now recall the reason now but this LT Coll was allowed under proper authority to select One (1) gun as a personal souvenir to bring back to the states with authorization. He picked the Darne, an R10 as I recall.

Not the hijack the line into one about Randalls, but here's a couple of articles written by twin brother Jack Williams on Randalls in Vietnam for the Special Forces association:

http://specialforces78.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/0714-Sentinel-News-FINAL..pdf

And this one about Col. Hal Moore's knife:
http://specialforces78.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/0917-Sentinel-News.pdf

Guys in Afghanistan don't carry sheath knives anymore.

At no place is it mentioned that this is a Lt. Col-in fact, in the line with his name it states his rank as Col.

The first paragraph states, unequivocally, that the gun "was carried through the jungles and deltas of Vietnam, and not on our side".

I have no reason to doubt that assessment, from the Colonel. He was there.

The second picture on the lead page of the article shows clearly a Darne R action, with a sliding breech that is engraved. This level of engraving would not be applied to an R10. The last picture in the article shows what appears to be the entire gun having been blued. At no point in the article is grade of the gun stated.

But, it is not an R10.

Best,
Ted

Since he was a Marine, he served in I Corps. There aren't any "deltas" there. And I sincerely doubt that that Darne was carried by any VC (South Vietnamese Communist Party member - who still took his orders from the North Vietnamese Politburo). It may have been carried - likely was since someone, possibly a French planter - there were still French planters there at the Mewall rubber plantation N. of Ban Me Thout in 1966 - must have used it for hunting....but it wasn't involved in the war. Ted, the sentence you quote has every appearance of hype.

50th anniversary of Tet is here and the media will be out in force - I'm going to hate this because there will be junk and balderdash....often pink tinged and full of ill-disguised contempt for our soldiers ...published by the volume and it will just antagonize us again...because that North Vietnames offensive effort destroyed the VC main force units in III and IV Coups...the southern communist cadres never again played a significant part in the war and what was left was finished off by Phoenix.

Argo,
At no point in the article does Col. Frederick E. Roseman state that he is a Marine. In fact, the only reference to branch of service is when he states that he asked to process the paperwork for the gun himself since "it would allow me to visit some of the Army units I had not previously seen (this wise move I was to regret a thousand times later on)".
I can't understand why a Marine officer, nearing the end of his tour, would want the chance to visit Army units of any type, but, there is likely much I don't understand about Marines. From the context of the aritcle, I would assume he was Army, and I do know no Marine I ever met would allow anyone to think for an instant he was Army.

Best,
Ted

I guess because you mentioned Marine in your original posts? Fact he didn't give his branch of service, unit or where he served is really strange. Nobody does that - It's an immediate identifier - "Oh you served in II Corps, near Kontum.....") Let me do some research on him.

Argo,
Colonel Roseman was Army in the Vietnam era. Served at the very end of the second world war in the Marines, after graduating with a chemical engineering degree. Had a full ride football scholarship. After discharge, he joined the National Guard, and was activated during Korea, and decided to make his career in the Army. Made his mark in guided missle research, served at the Army College in Saigon during the Vietnam war. Retired as a Colonel.
Was an interesting man, and left us in 2007.
Having said all that, his editors at The Rifleman may very well have editied out any comments regarding his service that he had in his article. It was a short article of two pages, and editors are notorious for leaving what they consider unimportant to the story, out.

Best,
Ted

Thanks Ted...I found his obituary. Col. Roseman was obviously a man of engineering talent, energy and high intellect. He served at the Army College in Saigon...probably teaching ARVN officers. That was honorable service but not combat. No problem with that - he served. But that shotgun then was likely a presentation piece. That's not a problem either. Then again the editors didn't have to build it up by making it out to be a VC weapon....but what the heck...it's a story about the resurrection of a gun with a neat provenance....they just implied more than they should have.

And believe me, the world is full of similar exaggerations. About 3,500,000 American military personnel from Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force served in the SE Asian theater (from Thailand to Guam) from 1956-75. At the last census over 14 million claimed to be Vietnam Vets. And that count of exaggerators doesn't include all the fishermen in the world.

Excellent post, Argo. That war eventually came down to NVA vs ARVN . . . and thanks to Congress, we failed to live up to the promises we'd made to support the South when American troops were withdrawn. William Colby, undoubtedly the most experienced high ranking CIA officer in Vietnam (having served as chief of station, later in charge of Phoenix) made the very clear and accurate point that it wasn't a guerrilla in a cone hat and tire tread sandals that broke down the gates to the presidential palace in Saigon. Rather, it was a North Vietnamese tank.

Setting aside the digressions from the original topic I'll make two points.
1. the OP asked about value. Depending on the level of pitting and where it is, I'd start somewhere around $400-$500 as "value" and $300-$400 as an initial offer (if I was in the market to buy, which I am not). The Costos are, as mentioned above, solid workaday guns. It may be that polishing the bores (and opening the chokes to accommodate plastic wads) turns this one into a real peach of a hunting gun. Taken care of it will likely outlive us all.

2. Last time I was there, the NRA Museum had an exhibit on the guns of America's wars. In the Vietnam exhibit they had a Darne, IIRC cut down on both ends. This came with an explanatory card saying the locals liked the Darne-type action because its strength allowed it to close and function, even on paper shells swollen by/in tropical humidity. I'll leave it to the other participants here to hash out the accuracy of the curator's statement.