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See "Americanization of a VC" The American Rifleman, January of 1976, by Col. Frederick E. Roseman.
At least one Darne returned to the US from Vietnam. He documented that it was taken from the Viet Cong, and his restoration of the gun, including a restock.


Best,
Ted

Confirmed, Europe. Learned a bit more, and the gentlemen lived in Germany for a while after the war, and then came back to the US.

A Colonel no less got around the "you can't bring squat back" MP's??!! Surprise..Surprise...as us "grunts" had to go through all those physical searches. I'll read the article. But frankly I never saw a "VC" carrying a shotgun..then again I was in II Corps for both tours....Darlac Plateau area NW of Ban Me Thout 66-67 and Kontum second tour 68 with FOB-2 MACVSOG...and it was all NVA regulars there. Maybe the Colonel was in the Delta (IV Corps) in the early years of the war? (Somehow that gets me P.O'd even at 50 years distance when I think about the Montagnard crossbows, etc., taken from me...RHIP...but I don't have much patience for that anymore).

I do know a guy in Afghanistan who found a 1930's Harley down in Qandahar and brought it back - or was it an Indian? I forgot.

One of the toughest guys I have ever met in my life volunteered for all three tours he did in Vietnam, he was a gung ho infantry Marine with a wife and four kids. On his last tour, his wife asked him to do something good while he was there, and he walked into an orphanage, and asked the nun "Which kid doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell?"
The nun assured him the one who had the least hope was a bi-racial ethnic Chinese/ black child, daughter of a prostitute and a GI.
He adopted her, and she grew up with us kids in our neighborhood.
My understanding is the gent was an absolute terror in combat, and simply lived for it. He found his calling in the USMC.
The Darne and that kid are the only two items I know for sure that came back from Vietnam with US servicemen.



Best,
Ted

Great story Ted. I knew of an orphanage up near Pleiku - one of its overseers was a famous woman Ko Tam connected to FULRO - that was flame throwered by an NVA battalion passing through. Glad the Col brought a child back...I was 23-4 and wouldn't have known how to do that at the time or been able to...and a gun..I wouldn't have been able to do that at the time either. And I volunteered for both my tours and for the Army, and Airborne and Special Forces and MACV SOG - most of the troops over there until about 1970 were volunteers despite years of propaganda to the contrary including that Vietnam series just concluded

For many years there was something of a grudge carried by Special Forces against the Marines over Lang Vei. My nephew is a Marine...so I guess it's also something consigned to the past.

But I can guarantee you one thing...there weren't any "VC" left in I Corps..it was all NVA - and if there were...they weren't carrying shotguns. That gun was likely a presentation. (My opinion)

Edit: I'm sorry Ted...nothing at all against the story and it's a great one...Vietnam after all these years of travel abroad and other conflicts just still pushes my buttons, I apologize for being a d**k.

Argo, have you run across any French guns you can document as being pre-WWII with the proof pressure marked in kilos? Even though all European gunmaking countries are now part of the CIP, they still--obviously--use different proofmarks. But the Brits didn't replace their "tons" marks with "bars" until the 80's. I've always assumed--perhaps incorrectly--that French guns marked with pressure using the metric system were all post-WWII.

My guess on this gun, given that we now know that the individual who brought it back--since he lived in Germany for a period of time after the war--likely got it there during the postwar years. If he was still serving in the military, and particularly if he was an officer, it's quite possible he was authorized to ship household goods back to the States. When I returned from Morocco in 1973, I had an SKB sxs that I'd purchased at a military rod & gun club in Spain. I followed the rules and sent it back--where it promptly ended up stuck in Customs in New York, and they were going to charge me locker rental storage fees. One of the gun dealers in my home town finally figured out how to "liberate" it and avoid the charges. But I should have followed the advice of my friend who was the vice consul in the embassy (and a former diplomatic courier), who said he always sent his guns back and forth with his household goods. Technically against the rules, but it worked for him. The individual in question may have done the same thing . . . rather than trying to bring it back in his duffelbag, like a returning enlisted soldier. Of course in those long ago days, I also reported for duty in Morocco carrying a shotgun through Moroccan customs--the gun having flown with me, in the cockpit of the Pan Am 707 on which we arrived. Which Pan Am had assured me was the legal way to do it back then. Confirmed by the pilot, although the gate agent in New York tried to argue otherwise.

Argo,
The Col. who wrote the article for The Rifleman brought back a Darne. The Marine I knew was likely a SSGT at the time he brought back the little girl he named Beth. I have no idea what his rank was at retirement, which would have been early 1980s.
He has since passed away, but, was one of the toughest individuals I've ever known.


Larry,
Tim Carney had a Darne 10 reproofed, and had an article in DGJ on the gun. If I am not mistaken, he didn't get the level of proof he asked for, and the barrel work that was done in France had to be corrected by Kirk Merrington when he got the gun back. That part didn't surprise me, when I read the article, which, I don't have at hand.
I don't recall ever seeing kilos marked on a French gun-if it passed proof, it got the crossed wheat marks of the St. Etienne proof house applied at whatever level of proof had been requested. Even if the numbers or system changed, the marks stayed the same, at least for the last century.
This could have changed.

Best,
Ted

Larry, As you all know I have a very limited assortment of SxS's since I just got enamored with SxS's 2.5 years ago. I have the
-- 1898 EM Reilly 12 bore hammer gun with 30" Damascus barrels (Reilly line)
-- a "Wonder" 1930's Saint Etienne 12 bore - http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=448156&page=5
-- the William Evans 1902 20 bore - http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=475775, and the
-- 1906 Gerest Berthon 16 ga Saint Etienne 16 bore with Didier Drevet barrels - posted by Ed Goode here which provoked the "dating early French shotgun" line.
You guys have helped me with all of them and I've learned a lot. But, I'm not sure what to look for on these guns for proof pressure. On the two Saint Etienne guns there's only the Saint Etienne crossed fronds.

I have been meaning to check the Reilly barrels out for Dates - one of our British posters noted that his Reilly with a SN from 1903 had barrels proofed pre-1896.

As for shipping guns..all of mine were hidden in trunks of Baluch rugs when I transferred PCS abroad. I never declared them. I even got a complete reloading apparatus into India including the powder and primers because of at the time Indian "Permit Raj" restrictions on shotgun ammo.

From Afghanistan, if it was pre 1898, you mailed the stuff back via APO. Up to about 2007 some of the JAG officers were flexible enough to allow British .303 SMLE Enfields to be sent back, reasoning they had been designed in 1892. I did stick an old hand-made clapped out double hammer gun with Islamic inscriptions on it's rib in my luggage in Quetta about 2008 and carried it back unmolested to the USA through Chicago airport with nary a question being asked.

This is one of a several guns that were brought back at the same time, and the gentleman was a Lt. Col.

Made me think of my Randall which was confiscated during desert storm and had to be replace when I got home. I now have a bunch of Randall�s, which like my Shotguns I only seem to use one of, a Model 10, 90% of the time.