doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The Turks are getting better and better....

I don't often agree with JM but I do here. It is simply a matter of time (and commitment by the makers) before they will be able to compete with anyone in the world for all but Best gun quality. What will take a bit longer is for the gun buying world to recognize that quality as and when it appears.

You all remember when "Made in Japan" meant it was crap, right?

AKUS is in the right track and all this talk about triggers over the last few years is surely getting back to them.

It's surprising to me how the Turks can make guns like the sxs Yildiz, send them all the way to the USA, and then sell them for $486 and still apparently make a profit. I'm certainly not gonna argue that these are high quality guns, but they are very functional and mine have been 100% reliable. I've posted pics of the one I had cut up to make a turkey gun, but I liked that one so much that I bought another one to keep in the truck every trip to my farm. I don't worry about scratching it up and it will shoot any kind of shell and accomplish most anything I need from a shotgun.

I don't see much evidence of hand fitting on it. Apparently they have figured out how to make the parts with machines and fit them together with minimal labor. The barrels and forearms on mine will interchange; I suspect all the parts would. Barrel regulation on both guns is excellent, and I can't say that about all my sxs guns.

It makes me wonder why if Yildiz can mass produce an entry level sxs, why can't it be done in other countries? I would assume that it's mainly that they don't believe there is a market for them, but I think it might be to some extent a lack of knowledge by gun companies. Ruger couldn't seem to build a decent sxs. If they couldn't, maybe the others can't either.

Seems to me that the Turks may be a lot smarter than some think.

"Seems to me that the Turks may be a lot smarter than some think."

lower working/living standards and pay scales allow them to ship over a gun for next to nothing. I would much rather support csmc and American workers that pay American taxes, than buy a Turkish gun. but that's just me.

What would you guys decide to do buy a used Spanish gun and have it restocked in Turkish walnut or order a brand new Turk gun with Turkish walnut?

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100931373

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100967702

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100931599

Canvasback, that's a good reminder. So let's stop and remember what caused the widespread acceptance of Japanese guns in this country.

The first ones to appear in any kind of quantity, I think, were the OU's and sxs marked "Charles Daly". Good enough guns, but didn't cause a big stir.

What caused a bigger stir: Winchester's Olin Kodensha operation in Japan. Where they made 101's, 23's, and Parker Reproductions. Not long after Winchester started with the 101, Ithaca cut a deal with SKB to import their OU's and sxs. That's two heavy hitters in the US firearms market bringing in Japanese doubles. Then Browning joined the parade: First with the BSS, then with the Citori. So, 3 big names in American firearms . . . that pretty much sold the American consumer on "made in Japan" not being crap. Of course it helped that at the same time, the Japanese were also scoring big in the American market with cars and electronics.

The problem for the Turks is that our market isn't as dominated by companies selling American guns (or guns on which they put American names) as in the past. And so far, not a single really important American company has put their name on Turkish-made guns. Or if they have--like S&W--the relationship didn't last for long. That may cause American buyers to be just a bit more cautious where Turkish guns are concerned. In the shotgun business, we're now up to Turkish doubles that are selling fairly well in the $2,000 range--and that's progress, because the S&W's had to be discounted down to about $1200 before they sold. Most Americans are still thinking of Turkish guns like we did about Spanish guns back in the 60's: bottom feeders. They have the low end sxs niche pretty much to themselves. But that's a relatively small market. The much bigger doublegun market is in stack barrels . . . and there they run head long into Citori and Beretta in the medium price range. Which makes it really tough for the Turks to do what the Japanese did 50 years ago.

Larry, I wasn�t specifically referring to guns with that line. But you make a good point. All the lack of a �big��American brand name means is that recognition and acceptance will take a few years longer.

That�s assuming they continue as have....upping the quality level they can and do produce.

Brand names are simply a code that tells us something about the product. And lots of them rise and fall. But once well established, a good brand name has amazing staying power. Consumers like shortcuts.

As far as stack barrels and competing against Browning and Beretta goes....there was a time when it was laughable to imagine Toyota, Honda and Nissan challenging the Big Three in NA. Simply laughable. Then, while we were laughing, the Big Three had their asses handed to them so badly that by the end of the last decade, two of three needed government bailouts. Complacency can be a [censored].

There was a time when Beretta meant little to American consumers. Same with Perazzi. If your competition is hungry and means business, look out. The only question that remains is are the Turks really committed. Truly, that's the only question. I've seen it in too many other areas of consumer products. Guns aren't somehow magical in that they can only be made in the places they have always been made by those who always made them.

Larry, the fact that the Turks have made the inroads they have in the American market, without the help of a big name American gun company speaks volumes. They have basically done it "on their own". Wait, just wait.

SRH

Ahh, the hint of hypocritical leftism. The world needs help until it's a choice between them and our homegrown "workers".

Haven't heard much from you supporting America in the past. What's different now? "Workers" are involved?? This makes me sad. Those nasty American workers have been taking jobs away from nice gun factories right around where I live...Cobourg and Peterborough! The poor workers!! A pox on CSMC!!

[quote=dal]"Seems to me that the Turks may be a lot smarter than some think."

lower working/living standards and pay scales allow them to ship over a gun for next to nothing. I would much rather support csmc and American workers that pay American taxes, than buy a Turkish gun. but that's just me. [/quote

Bingo. Well said.

dal & eeb,

Can either of you lay claim to having never bought an item that was made outside the States? If you can't, why are you picking on the Turkish guns?

SRH