doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com W&S 700 or Bernardelli Hemingway?

For some time now, I've had my eye out for a light 12 gauge field gun with 2.75" chambers at a price that would not have me fretting that the tiniest scratch or bump would jeopardize a major capital investment. I know of a couple potential candidates, both at 6.25 pounds and offered by reputable dealers. I'd be tempted to go for either of them if the other weren't available. Buying both is unfortunately not an option at this point

One is a Webley & Scott 700 with 28" tubes for a little over $2k. I haven't talked to the seller for details on condition and vintage; it looks like it's been shot a fait bit but taken care of, with a few stock dings, 80% case colors left, and sound, unaltered barrels

The second gun is a "Cabela's Hemingway" (V. Bernardelli) from 1986 with 25.5" (65 cm) barrels described as being in "near new" condition. It's going for $1600.

Barrel length aside and assuming condition as described, does anyone have experience or opinions about these options? I've read a number of threads on this board and elsewhere praising both guns as reliable field guns, the Webley being the classic Birmingham workhorse, the Bernardelli maybe a tad more refined but also "not English". I know it ultimately comes down to the individual gun, but I'd love to hear from anyone who's handled or shot decent specimens of both.

Thanks!

Bill

From a resale viewpoint the short barreled gun will be much harder to sell later if you decide to move in from it. Plus I like the 700 and it's workhorse reputation. I'd take a little more wear. Do check the chokes out because I see a lot of doubles with reamed out chokes these days. If you can handle both you might just go with which everyone feels the best.

The choice should be made based on fit and preferred handling qualities of each gun. The metal to wood fit will go to the Webley & Scott while the lightly choked Italian Beccasier will be lighter lighter and should have articulated front trigger. The standard barrel length was 60cm so the 65cm must have been done at Cabela's request. The VB is purpose built quick handling brush gun for woodcock, grouse and swamp wabbits. While the VB is cheaper the W&S will be easier to move if you try to sell it at later time because it was made in England and many have "allergy" to short barrels. Good Luck.

Bill, I'd add to what's been said above: What's your intended use for the gun? I've owned 700's and they are indeed nice, reliable field guns. However, even with 2 3/4" chambers, they really aren't built for some of the heavier and/or faster field loads we Yanks use in our guns on this side of the pond. If you're thinking pheasants, where you might be tempted to shoot 1 1/4 oz or more, I'd stay away from the 700. The Bernardelli likely has magnum proof (which the 700 does not have) and would handle heavier loads . . . although you might not want to shoot many of them in a gun that light.

Thanks for the replies. Both guns appear to have unaltered chokes--the VB is M/F, the WS SK2/F. Larry, the possibility of a trip up north to pheasant country is certainly in the back of my mind, but I'd probably be using 1 1/16 or at most 1 1/8 oz in guns that light. My understanding was that British 2 3/4" proof was up to 1.25 oz, though not at the high velocities and pressures of typical US loads. Wouldn't the RST pheasant load (1.25 oz. @ 1200 fps) wall within the Webley's service range? Even if yes, I doubt I'd want to subject myself or the gun to the pounding.

Bill

Did you ever own either of these guns Jagermeister?

Do you own any double shotguns at all?

How is the fit and handling qualities of the guns you lied to us about owning?

Didn't you tell us that you prefer short barrels because a short barreled gun makes you look taller?

Why do you feel the pathetic need to give advice on guns and things you have no actual experience with?

I've never owned a W&S, however, I have owned a few Bernies and I enjoy them very much. If you're looking for really light weight in a 12, you could keep your eyes peeled for a Bernardelli Elio. I think mine with an English stock weighs barely over 6 lbs with ejectors. Though, it also has the 25.5" barrel lengths and is choked in IC and Mod. The articulated trigger is also nice if you are carrying a light gun and shoot heavy pheasant loads in it. The bores are also chromed (I'm not sure on the W&S), which makes cleaning a breeze.

If both guns are neck and neck in the running, I'd choose whichever fit you better.

If you buy the Bernie, be sure you really want M/F in a short barrel gun.

If so, go for it.

I had a VB 'Roma' for a while, and thought it was a good value.

I have a Brescia and a Gamecock Premier
Fine sturdy guns
I would say that the Scott is a finer made gun

Mike