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I have this early Clabrough Bros 10 Ga SxS. Looking for some info like year of manufacture etc.

32" barrels, not weighed it but feels like 10+ pounds, buttplate is marked Clabroughs Duck & Quail gun.

Did Clabrough make their own guns or was it made by other makers. Any way to identify the maker of this gun?


























Last edited by Oberndorf; 07/28/17 09:00 PM.
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And the proof marks....





Thank you


Last edited by Oberndorf; 07/28/17 09:03 PM.
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Cant be sure, but it seems like it has the Greener lockup system.
If the top lever pivot is behind the rear face of the action, it is likely a Greener lockup.
Also, the "Treble Lockfast " is a Greener trademark I believe.
Many "makers" bought guns and finished them, Cl Bros included.


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I sure like it.
Reminds me I need a better camera.

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As best as I can see in the pictures I do not see any indication of a cross bolt.

From an 1895/96 Clabrough, Golcher & Co catalog from San Francisco Cal they show three type of bolting on Hammer guns & two types on Hammerless.

On the hammer guns they show a plain unbolted Doll's Head, a Bolted doll's Head & a bolted "Cloverleaf" extension. None of these at this point utilized a cross bolt.

On the hammerless guns they show a plain unbolted Doll's Head or a straight extension rib with Cross Bolt.

All had double underbolts in addition to the Doll's Head with or without the top bolt.


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You are correct, it does not have a cross bolt. It has a bolted dolls head in addition to the double under-bolts.



I am also leaning towards Greener based on the "Triple Lock Fast" marking. My guess is it is much earlier than 1895.

Last edited by Oberndorf; 07/28/17 10:33 PM.
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I think Greener was Treble Wedge Fast, not Lock Fast..
& that was the round Greener Cross bolt
Franc

Last edited by Franc Otte; 07/28/17 11:00 PM.
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I'll definitely look into it. It's a really impressive gun. I would be proud to own it too!

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That is beautiful case hardening work, IMO. Do you know if it was done by Ray St. Ledger?

SRH

Last edited by Stan; 07/29/17 06:37 AM. Reason: grammatical error

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sweet, i have #32- a low hammer 10- and there are a couple differences

Proofs are the same Birmingham marks - except mine is 10 not 11 and still 12 at the muzzle, same buttplate, same dolls head, the engraving is nearly identical- as are the hammers- the rib lettering on mine is not in a border and mine does not have the lockfast markings

the grades are not always easy to determine - but- this one is mid to upper

i will get the book out later and look for some of these features

you might enjoy a copy-- http://www.clabrough.com/



they did restart the serial numbers at least once

not sure what you shoot - but I found mine shoots a consistent 91/92% pattern with lead fours i will eventually work up a light nice shot load and take it waterfowling

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loverly old gun...great pitchers...

what camera are you using?


keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Thanks everyone for all the info.

Originally Posted By: Stan
That is beautiful case hardening work, IMO. Do you know if it was done by Ray St. Ledger?

SRH


Not sure about the CCH as this was how it was when I purchased it.

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Originally Posted By: ed good
loverly old gun...great pitchers...

what camera are you using?


I am using an old Canon T3 with the newer 55-250 STM lens.

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Oberndorf

i had a chance to get the J. P Clabrough book out to refresh my memory

the serial numbers restarted in 1884 - and numbers 1 to 5000 were made that year so - yours was made in 1884

Clabrough had their own factory at 15 Mary's Row, they did pay to use other's patents - that may explain the Greener feature (Greener was also on Mary Row, not sure of the timing)

i think your gun would be either medium plus or low end of the high grade. better mediums could have the lock fast, and drop points the higher grades would have scroll engraving, not birds, more elaborate checkering and gold inlays.

the insides of the locks might help - high grade's lock were burnished on the inside, well polished.

hope this helps




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Thanks OH, really appreciate it. I will post pictures of the locks when I get time to take them out.

Wondering about the 11B and 12B proof marks, I thought it would be marked as 10B for 10ga.

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Originally Posted By: Oberndorf
Thanks OH, really appreciate it. I will post pictures of the locks when I get time to take them out.

Wondering about the 11B and 12B proof marks, I thought it would be marked as 10B for 10ga.


your is a 11 bore and 12 at the muzzle, the chamber would still be 10

I do not think tight bores are uncommon in guns of that era-

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My hammerless side lock non-ejector Clabrough is SN 4230. It carries post 1887 proof marks, were the hammerless guns SN'd in a different sequence from the hammer guns. This one is marked J P Clabrough & Bros London Fine Damascus on the rib & J P Clabrough & Bros on both lockplates.
Proof marks on the barrel are Birmingham & have the 12C in diamond for chamber, 12 (for bore) on both barrels & the word Choke on each barrel which should put it at least as late as 1887. It has double underbolts with an un-bolted doll's head. Per the above mentioned 1895/96 catalog this would be the #1 (Field) grade with a catalog price of $50.00 at that point. Has 28" barrels with a weight of 6lb 14 oz with about a ╝ choke in both barrels. Some years back I hunted it rather extensively for a few seasons with some 1 oz loads @ about 8K psi of either #8 or #6 shot depending upon what I was hunting that day. Using #8 for quail or woodcock & #6 for Beagle chased Cottontails it was pure poison. It fits me to near perfection & I shot it as well or better than any other shotgun I have ever used.
Even though it was Clabrough's bottom of the Line I have found it to be very well made. It is still on Face & bolts up tightly even though there is no wear compensation to the bolts, the top lever always stops at center with the barrels on or off. There is no hold over latch for the top lever so it also returns to center when the gun is opened with barrels intact. This gun along with another or so I have owned over the years with non-compensating bolts which likewise bolted up tight has caused me to question if the extra friction as the tapered bolts seat do not perhaps induce as much (or More) wear as they compensate for.
All in all I have found this old Clabrough to be a reliable & capable gun. The locks incidentally on this gun are back action even though the plates resemble a bar action.
Many many years ago, probably at least 40 years, at a gun show in Nashville TN I saw an 8 gauge hammerless Clabrough.

PS;
I forgot to add, on the left action flat of this hammerless are the following marks. Near the left edge is a diamond, with the point starting near the breech & the long axis running lengthwise down the bar. This diamond was not fully stamped. What I can make out inside is the word Patent starting near the point next to the breech. Cannot make out anything in the upper half of the diamond. to the right & slightly lower is the small numbers 81. Then below this centered on the lower point is the number 397.
Then near the slots for the barrel lumps, also reading from the breech outward is stamped; Makers Patent Action 257764. This is a US patent issued May 9, 1882 to J T & J Rogers of Birmingham Eng for a Hammerless Cocking Mechanism. I have no idea of the connection between the Roger's & J P Clabrough.

Last edited by 2-piper; 07/31/17 12:31 PM. Reason: Added Info

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Very neat!

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Nice! An educated guess; and fairly certain in what I believe and I strongly believe that it is the work of The Midland Gun Company of Birmingham and based on their model of the 'Demon' hammer gun. The 'R' on the underside of the barrels looks to be the mark of one of the Rees brothers who worked for M.G.C. as a barrel borer. The standard 'Demon' was a 12 bore but other bores could be ordered. The lock-up shown was of that model and although they had stock catalogue items they would mix and match to customer requirements. I'm a good 95% on my assertion. Hope that helps. Lagopus.....

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