doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Well Known & publicized "Facts"

I was thinking more in terms of the comedic aspect of the "hitting harder" concept - - tho it certainly falls into the Well Known & publicized "Facts" category

Well . . . if we're talking about the traditional standard load for the various gauges: A 16, throwing an ounce, DOES hit harder than a 20 throwing 7/8. All else being equal. (Just like a 12 hits harder than a 16.)

The logic of that totally escapes me. Any pellet that doesn't hit the bird has no impact effect. So different gauges put differing numbers of pellets on a target in a consistent manner? Your contention is without any connection to reality.

How "Hard" a shotgun shoots is pretty well defined by two factors, Penetration of the shot & sufficient pattern density to insure a hit. Otherwise a .22 Short would shoot "Harder than most any shotgun ever made But you gotta hit it.
Heavier shot loads, assuming similar choking, provide denser patterns increasing the odds of a vital spot being struck. "No One", no matter how good, can aim an individual pellet from a shot load.
"Hard" is not truly the best word to use, but to use it as commonly meant, Will a 1� oz loaded shoot "Harder" than a � oz .410 load all other things being equal, "YES", will a 3 oz load from a 8 gauge shoot "Harder" than that 1� oz 12, "YES"

There are apparently a number of terms in common use here that show a lack of understanding or vocabulary. "Hard hitting" is certainly not applied exclusively to charge weight and is just as inappropriate in other contexts. The stupid level is challenged mightily by the use of the term "water table" as a ref to action flats. Unfortunately the English language is often assaulted by the commonly misguided.

Just because you think doesn't make it so

Just because you believe it down't make it real

Don't know about YOUR "reality", Wonko . . . but here's mine: First, please note the "all things being equal" part of my statement. Second, if all things are equal, then a 16 shooting an ounce of shot through an IC choke should put more pellets in a 30" circle at a given range than a 20ga shooting 7/8 oz. Which means--ta da--that chances are, it will put more pellets into the bird you're shooting at. CUMULATIVE impact of being hit by 5 #6 shot beats the impact of being hit by 4 #6 shot, every time. Also improves the odds of one or more of the pellets from the heavier shot charge striking something vital.

Good to be on the same sheet of music as Miller.

Ah, the light goes on. I need to come up with a term for a three to four projectile rifle. Stupid?

Maybe, just because one can measure the impact energy of a single piece of shot, doesn't mean one has to. Some might get more value out of describing what a pattern can do for them, rather than calculate the energy it takes to knock a feather loose or skim a little dust off a clay target.

Craig, both pattern and penetration are important. The more pellets that strike a bird, the better the chance that one or more of them will hit something vital. And smaller shot gives you more pellets per shot charge. On the other hand, if none of those small pellets penetrate far enough to hit anything vital, the bird in question may very well keep on flying. I've seen pheasants fly off after shedding a pillow's worth of feathers. That's why you need penetration . . . which is a commercial for larger pellets.

Debates about the right combination of pattern and penetration can go on forever. I think some have!

How many fairies can dance on the head of a pin?

For the record, GAUGE has nothing to do with the retained energy of the shot swarm. Shot size, pattern density, velocity at at impact , and target size/profile have everything to do with it. For any practical purpose the discussion would end there.

If we're thinking the whole swarm, maybe we should also consider the mass of the swarm to help figure out retained energy? Possibly, in a practical discussion, we can't really stuff typical 12ga. payloads and velocities into a .410 hull.