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Drew
I do believe black powder shells were used for trap in the most early days of the sport and my statement was meant to be generic. Not specific to the Remington FE. I have never loaded shells with smokeless powder for my vintage guns Standard is 3 drams and 1 1/8 oz. the only change is the pellet size depending on what I am shooting and bismuth for waterfowl

Yes, that's all they had, in great and cleverly named variety, and they used some boomer loads
https://books.google.com/books?id=AEM9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PR9&lpg#v=onepage&q&f=false

Outing: Sport, Adventure, Travel, Fiction, 1889
Al Bandle, of Cincinnati, on Christmas Day defeated the famous shot, Captain A. H. Bogardus, by killing 100 live birds straight to the Captain's equally remarkable record of 95.
Bogardus shot a 12-gauge L.C. Smith gun, hammerless, 7 lbs. 12 oz. weight and shot 4 drams American Wood powder in his first barrel, 1 1/4 oz. No. 8 shot in first and 1 1/4 oz. No. 7 in second, backed up with 3 1/4 drams Laflin and Rand Orange Lightning powder.
Bandle shot the same make of gun, 10 gauge, and used, first barrel, 4 drams Wood powder, second, 4 drams Laflin and Rand �F.F.F. extra� powder, No. 7 shot.

DuPont purchased Laflin & Rand in 1902. L&R �Orange Extra� Black Powder was still offered in the 1927 Hercules Sporting Powders booklet.

Hmmm, thanks Doc Drew. So, Bogardus had a preferred first barrel. Noted, that it's live bird and he likely discharged both barrels, but I think Stan was spot on way back in the beginning.

I'd think the best didn't randomly switch barrels to compensate for wear or equipment compromises. I think they shot cutting edge of the day, and practiced and competed for consistency. Though it can be serious today, the stakes seemed much higher at the time when the events and accomplishments were covered by national and local media.

As early as 1891, Union Metallic Cartridge Co. was offering shot gun shells loaded with smokeless powders. Winchester provided smokeless powder shotgun shells to "selected shooters" in 1893 and to the general public in 1894. From the first Grand American Handicap at live birds in 1893 on through the last GAH at live birds in 1902, virtually all the contestants were using smokeless powder shells.

From the introduction of the Remington Hammerless Doubles in the October 1894 Remington Arms Co. catalog, they were said to be "adapted to all nitro powders." By the November 1895 Remington Arms Co. catalog they state "Guaranteed for Nitro Powders."

Surviving Remington Arms Co. hang-tags I've seen show that in 1900 a 12-gauge K-Grade gun, 303821, was targeted with 3 1/2 drachms of FG black powder pushing 1 1/4 ounce of #8 shot. By 1902, a 12-gauge No. 1 Hammer Gun was targeted with a UMC 2 5/8 inch "SMOKELESS" shell loaded with 3 drams of DuPont Bulk Smokeless Powder pushing 1 1/4 ounce of #8 chilled shot. All the later hang-tags I've seen show the guns targeted with a UMC NITRO CLUB shell loaded with either three drams of bulk smokeless powder or 24 grains of dense smokeless powder, such as Infallible or Ballistite, pushing that 1 1/4 ounce of #8 chilled shot. One is over typed 7 1/2 and has a 7. stamped on the barrel lug next to the pellet counts.

Here's how,
1931 Winchester Model 21, 32" Vent Rib Trap, Full/Full.


90% Original Condition

Tamid - I am surprised you use black in your Remington trap. I dare say it never saw black powder shells until you used them in it. Nothing wrong with that, but that gun will work fine with modern loads or your smokeless hand loads

One day I may get around to experimenting with smokeless powder loads. In the meantime my BP loads cause a lot of comments and for a few minutes I get to extol the virtues of using vintage Sxs on the uninitiated.

Hey, Bob. Did you use photobucket to post that pic?


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