doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Strength of Early vs Later SxS guns

Mind is expiring Ted

The Iron Age, April 1902
https://books.google.com/books?id=xqM-AQAAMAAJ&pg=RA9-PA65&lpg
The first electric arc furnace was developed by Paul H�roult, of France, in 1900. H�roult came to the U.S. in 1905 and Halcomb Steel Co. installed the first electric arc furnace in the U.S. in 1906.
Sanderson Brothers Steel Co. installed an arc furnace in 1907, and the furnace is on display at Station Square, Pittsburgh.

The Horseless Age, Dec. 14 1910
https://books.google.com/books?id=DKONYWNYDqIC&pg=PA813&lpg

C.H. Halcomb, former president of Crucible, formed Halcomb Steel Company in Syracuse in 1902, with L.C. Smith as Chairman of the Board of Directors.
Crucible bought Halcomb in 1911, but the company continued to market many tradename steels and steel alloys including �Dreadnought High Speed Steel�, �Ketos Oil Hardening Steel�, and �Halectralloy Brand� Chrome Vanadium and Chrome Nickel steels. In 1917, Halcomb was merged with Syracuse Crucible Steel Co.
John Houchins states that Halcomb supplied London steel for 0 grades and Royal steel for the hammer guns starting in 1907, and in his L.C. Smith �The Legend Lives� p. 385 has a copy of the 1907 Halcomb catalog with a listing for �Machine Gun And Smokeless Rifle Barrel, Revolver Cylinder Steel, and Shot Gun Barrel...furnished in both Carbon and Alloy grades.�
The 1913 edition of �Halcomb Steel Co. Catalogue and Hints on Steel� however contains no mention of steel for gun barrels, nor Royal or London steel.

We have lots of Smiths with London and Royal steel barrels that carry the mark of �LLH� (Laurent Lochet-Habran) & �ACL� (Acier Cockerill Liege) however.

BTW: The J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. No. 105, 107 & 115 singles were listed with �Electro Steel� in 1901; post-1916 No. 105 had �Compressed Forged Steel�.
The No. 165 singles in 1912 also had �Electro Steel�.

Hunter - Trader - Trapper , 1908
https://books.google.com/books?id=USTOAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA11&lpg

In 1902 the No. 180 hammerless single had �Special Pyro-Electro Steel�.

The metal in a good condition vintage LC Smith will probably handle modern loads. Shooting them particularly in a light 16 G is another matter. So few factory 16 G loads out there choices are limited most are loaded like light 12s and intended to cycle autos. RSTs are intended for SxS guns and work well, others kick too hard and generally have shot loads heavier than needed for Clays or upland birds.

I shoot Herters 1 oz 16 g shells in a pump the reload the hullls 3/4 or 7/8 oz depending on the gun. Lighter older Parker Hammer 16 stick with the 3/4. Newer Parker Trojan 3/4 for close range clays with some 7/8s in the pouch for longer shots.

Much easier on my shoulder and old wood. I am pretty sure a steady high volume diet of factory 16 g shells would cause stock problems in My Hammer Gun Your Smith likely the same

Others may see it different.

Boats

I have read some copies of letters written by one of the arms factories set up by the Confederacy during the 1861-65 era for the purpose of making revolvers. As I recall this was one of the factories making Copies of the Colt model 1851. They were Begging for "Steel". They were they said prepared to make revolvers in some quantity. They could make the barrels & frames from iron, but "Had" to have Steel for the cylinders. They had tried Twisted Iron & it would still not contain the pressures But they Has to have Steel for the cylinders.
Apparently steel has been in existence in some form for at least that long. Problem was there was simply none to be obtained "In The South"
I believe that Genuine Colts of this period did have Steel Cylinders.
In "The Gun" 1834 W Greener mentions both Twist & Damascus barrels being made of a mixture of steel & iron so steel itself had been around for awhile prior to "Steel Shotgun Barrels" being made.

Huntsman hot-rolled crucible steel process was introduced in 1742. To form a barrel, a sheet was folded over a mandrel and the long edge hammer welded.
Everything changed when the Bessemer process was patented in 1856, and when William Siemens established the �Sample Steelworks� to develop the Siemens-Martin �Open Hearth� process in 1865.
And that would be Ted's friend Monsieur Pierre-�mile Martin

Thanks all a lot of good information being posted.

Didn't realize LC Smith had changed the stock in later guns. Thanks Drew..

I have plans to use this on pheasants, it has F/XF chokes so I would think a 1oz rst load of copper plated 6's would work pretty good for that purpose.

The wood on the gun appears to be in very good shape, actually the whole gun appears to be in pretty good shape.

I wouldn't worry about it at all. Sweet Elsie!!!

My 2 3/4 16's love the shells that herters makes. 2 1/2 are still great to shoot out of it. An ounce of 8's is an ounce of 8's

What you'll find with the Elsie 16's factory chambered at 2 3/4" is that they're heavier in general than the earlier short-chambered 16's. (Hunter was the last of the American makers to switch to 2 3/4" standard chamber length in the 16ga.) I would not worry about modern 16ga ammo in an Elsie 16 with factory 2 3/4" chambers . . . except maybe the Federal 1 1/4 oz "magnums". Those might not hurt the gun, but they can be nasty on the shooter's shoulder.

The guy I bought it from, said the gun has 2 3/4" chambers, I am going to verify that when it comes in. I have read conflicting information on when exactly LC Smith went to 2 3/4" for 16ga guns.... I have read some guys saying they have mid 30's era guns that have 2 3/4, and some saying the shorter chambers...

Is there any "firm date" when this occured?

Firm for 20s; a moving target for 16s
http://www.lcsmith.org/faq/lengthen2016.html

BTW: you are fortunate to be near Buck Hamlin in Pevely, MO 636-479-4304

Did more looking and it does not appear that Pierre-�mile Martin ever made it to the U.S.