doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Verney-Carron Heliduplex S X S

Thank you Argo for your willingness to help. I believe I will write to V-C and see what I can find out, and yes, a translation of the catalog description would be most helpful. Do you think T3 could possibly be the S/N? I don't know how many of these they built but it couldn't have been too many.T3 is the only mark that is on all three components of this gun. Assembly no. possibly? Regards,Sandlapper

Sand, I'm making progress on the translation - nothing much to help you so far in dating your Heliduplex except perhaps the date of the adoption of "Vercar" as a Verney-Carron trademark - 1930? first, here are a few French gun/shotgun terms that I picked up reading French gun ads that might help along the way - more to follow: (Larry, Raimey, etc. - please correct any that are wrong) (I've left off the articles - le or la...to allow easier use):

Anson et Deeley - box lock
Armes de poing - hand guns
Armes d�epaule - long guns
Armurerie - armory, gun shop
Artisan - artisan
Bande - rib
Prolongement de la band - extension of the rib (to the receiver)
Bascule - receiver
Bois - wood
Bois de noyer - walnut
Noyer blonde - blond walnut
Boitier - housing
Brisure, a - top break, center break fire arm
Broche type - pinfire
Canon - barrel
Canons juxtapos� - double barrel; SxS
Canon raye - rifled barrel
Canons superpos�s - over/under
Canon lisse - smoothbore
Cartouches � plombs - shot shell
Cartouches � balle - slug
Charni�re - hinge, pivot
Chien - hammer
Chiens ext�rieurs - external hammers
Cle top; Cle a top - top lever key
Cl� d�ouverture top lever - top lever key
Cl� sur le dessu - top lever key
Corne - horn (as for butt plate material)
Crochet - lock or hook
Crochet du canon - barrel lock
Crosse - stock
Crosse anglais - English stock
Crosse � joue - stock with cheek piece
Crosse pistole - pistol grip stock
Culasse - gun bolt
Damasquin�e - damascened
Demi-coquelle - half cock (for hammer guns)
Detente - trigger
Devant - forestock
Double detente - double tigger
double verrou de fermeture - double locking bolt
�jecteurs automatiques - automatic ejectors
Epreuves - proof
Banc d��preuves - proof house
Double-epreuves - double proofed
�tranglement - choke
Feu centre - centerfire
Forage - bore (barrel)
Fusil - rifle/firearm
Fusil de chasse - shotgun
Fusil a percussion - muzzle loading, percussion rifle
Gachette - trigger
Gachette interruptrice - trigger safety
Gravure - engraving
Goupille - pin
Goupille de charni�re - hinge pin
Illisible - illegible
Juxtapos� - side-by-side
Levier de s�curit� - safety lever
Longuesse - forestock
Longuesse a poussoir - pushrod (forestock with pushrod release)
Massif - water table..holds the barrel locks
Moul�e - molded
Or - gold
Or fin - fine gold
Percussion central - center percussion, center fire (hammer gun)
Piece d'armurerie - piece of firearms manufacture
Plaque de couche - butt plate
Platine - side lock
Platine arri�res - back side-locks
Platine en avant - front side-locks
Platine encastre - embedded side-locks
Poin�ons - stamp (proof stamp)
Poin�ons r�glementaires - legal stamps
Pontet - trigger guard
Pontet � volutes - trigger guard with volutes
Poudres sans fum�e - smokeless powder
Poussoir - push rod (forestock)
Rallonge de crosse - stock extension
Ray�s � chargement par la bouche - muzzle loader
Ressort - spring
S�ret� - safety
Stephanois - from Saint-Etienne region
Type anglais - English style
Verrou - lock
Verrou de fermeture - closing lock
Verrouillage - locking system

translation of the right page (Heliduplex model 641) - French in blue.

Hammerless - hammerless
Heliduplex - trademark lock
Platine d�montables. removeable side-plates
Ejectors automatic - automatic ejectors

Succursales - sale rooms

CANON - barrel
INTEGRALBLOC - VC trade name for combining barrels and barrel rib extension and barrel locks
TREMPE. - tempered

Veritables platines d�montables - true removable side-plates


HELIDUPLEX No 641, a ejecteur automatique, Fusil Hammerless a platines d�montables
HELIDUPLEX model number 641 with automatic ejectors; Hammerless gun with removable side-plates.


Canons Integralbloc (see pages 10, 11 and 12).
Integralbloc barrels (VC trademark process where-by the barrel locks and are cast onto each barrel then welded together - I�ll translate that separately)

Quality special extra-sup�rieure tremp�e marque Vercar.
Special quality extra-superior tempered barrels of the mark �Vercar.�

Demichoke a droite. choke plein a gauche.
Modified (1/2) choke on the right; full choke on the left

Forage perfection avec polissage int�rieur Longitudinal.
Perfect bores with longitudinally polished interiors

Bande stri�e d�croissante avec prolongement s�encastrant dans la bascule.
Straight unvarying rib with the prolongation imbedded in the receiver.

Fermature a double Helice, syst�me brevets.
Patented Double Helice closing system.

Piece de bascule en acier au creuset, marque Acier Diamant.
Receiver made in �Acier Diamant� compressed steel. (see catalog description of the process)

Platines d�montables avec gachettes Interruptrices.
Disassembleable sidelocks with sear safeties.

�jecteur automatique.
Automatic ejectors.

Devant de bois remontant a poussoir.
Wooden fore-stock removed by push lever.

Poignet et devant quadrilles.
Pistol grip and fore-stock checkered in the Quadrilles system.

Mecanisme de s�ret� paralysant a volonte l�action des detentes.
Safety mechanism which prevents the movement of the trigger.

Epreuve poudre T.
Proofed for �T� powder. (Larry can describe what this means)

Ciselures aux coquilles et gravures artistique sure les piece�. 8,400 Fr
Shell embossed and artistic engraving on the piece

Perfection est le seul qualificatif qui convienne a ce modele qui �classe� son possesseur, a la chasse come au tir aux pigeons
Profection is the only term which is appropriate for this model which shows the �class� of it�s owner whether during the hunt or during pigeon shoots

"The water table has the no. 884,along with T3,the VC trademark,and Acier Diamont. The barrels have on the flats the words Trempe, verney-carron integralbloc, Vercar stamp and 7."

I'm inclined to believe 884 is the SN. T3 may be a VC mark for "tempered" (trempe). Trempe and integral bloc are explained in the catalog and addressed above. 70 should be 2 3/4.

Vercar as I understand it was adopted by VC as a trademark around 1930...not sure of this but it can be researched further. VC should know about the SN.

Argo, please let me correct some mistakes and add quite a few more.
best regards,
WC-

Acier - steel
Acier damas (also "damas") - damascus steel
Acier tremp� - quenched steel
Acier revenu - tempered steel
Anson et Deeley, Anson- box lock
Arme de poing - hand gun
Arme d��paule - long gun
Armurier - gun shop owner
Armurerie - gun shop, not a maker, historically a body armor vendor
Arquebusier - Gun maker
Artisan - artisan
Avantage (a droite, a gauche) - cast-off, cast-on
Bande - rib
Prolongement de la bande - extension of the rib (to the receiver)
Balle - bullet or slug
Bascule - receiver/action
Bille acier - steel shot
Bois - wood
Bois de noyer - walnut
Noyer blond - blond walnut
Boitier - housing
Bouche - muzzle
Bouchon de percuteur - Firing pin bushing
Bourre - wad
Brisure, a - top break, center break fire arm ???
fusil a Broche- pinfire gun
Bronzage - barrel blacking
Busc - comb (for a stock)
Cale - wedge (in a double rifle)
Canon - barrel
Canons juxtapos�s - double barrel; SxS
Canon ray� - rifled barrel
Canons superpos�s - over/under
Canon lisse - smoothbore
Carabine - rifle, carbine
Cartouches � plombs - shot shell
Cartouches � balle - slug shell
Chambre - chamber
Chien - hammer
Chiens ext�rieurs - external hammers
Choke - Choke
Demi choke - Modified choke
Cl� - key
Cl� d�ouverture - top lever key
Cl� sur le dessus - top lever key
Coffret - case (to put the gun in)
Corne - horn
Crochet - barrel hook
Crochet du canon - same
Crochet encastr� - dovetailed lump
Crosse - stock
Crosse anglais - English stock
Crosse � joue - stock with cheek piece
Crosse demi-pistolet - round knob grip stock
Crosse pistolet - pistol grip stock
Crossier - stock maker
Culasse - gun bolt
Damasquin� - damascened
Demi-coquelle - half cock (for hammer guns) (???)
Demi-bloc - chopper lump
D�tente - trigger
Devant - forearm
Double detente - double tigger
double verrou de fermeture - double locking bolt
Etui - brass (for a cartridge)
�b�ne - ebony
�jecteurs automatiques - automatic ejectors
Extracteur - extractors
�preuves - proof
Express (also double "express") - double rifle
Banc d��preuves - proof house
Double-epreuves - double proofed
�tranglement - choke
(arme a )Feu central- centerfire (gun)
Fermeture en "T" - Jones underlever
Forage - bore (barrel)
Fusil - firearm (normally a shotgun except but also military rifle)
Fusil de chasse - shotgun
Fusil a percussion - muzzle loading, percussion rifle
Fusil a piston - percussion gun
Gachette - sear
Gachette interruptrice - safety sear
Graveur - Engraver
Gravure - engraving
Grenadi�re - sling swivel
Goupille - round pin
Goupille de charni�re - hinge pin
Guidon - front sight
Hausse - back sight
Illisible - illegible
Jaspage - case coloring
Juxtapos� - side-by-side
Levier - Lever
Levier de s�curit� (ou s�curit�) - safety lever
Longuesse - forestock
Longuesse a poussoir - pushrod (forestock with pushrod release)
Massif - water table..holds the barrel locks I don't agree with that
Moul�(e) - molded
Noix - Hammer axis
Or - gold
Or fin - fine gold
Oreille - Sideclip
Percussion centrale - center percussion, center fire (hammer gun)
Percuteur - Firing pin
Piece d'armurerie - piece of firearms manufacture ???
Piston (Fusil a-) - percussion gun
Planchette - back sight folding leaf
Plaque de couche - butt plate
Platine - side lock
Platine Holland - front lock as made by H&H or others
Platine arri�res - back locks
Platine avant - front locks
Platine encastr�e - embedded locks
Platine d�montable - hand removable sidelock
plomb - lead shot
Poin�on - stamp
Poin�ons r�glementaires - legal stamps
Poin�ons d'�preuve - proof marks
(Crosse) Ponc�e huile - sanded with oil finish (stock)
Pontet - trigger guard
Pontet � volute - trigger guard with volute in front
Port�e - range (as in shooting distance)
Poudre sans fum�e - smokeless powder
Poudre Pyroxyl�e - smokeless powder (French)
Poudre Vive - smokeless Powder ( Belgian)
Poussoir - push rod (forestock)
Quadrillage - Checkering
Quadrilleur - Checkerer
Rallonge de crosse - stock extension
Ray� � chargement par la bouche - muzzle loader rifle
Ressort - spring
Ressort � boudin - Coil spring
S�ret� - safety
St�phanois - from Saint-Etienne region
Tirette - action rod
Tonnerre - action ball
Type anglais - English style
Verrou - lock
Verrou de fermeture - closing lock
Verrou vertical - rising bite
Verrouillage - locking system
Vis - Screw

Thanks WC...I'm still learning gun terminology and hoped some of you would intervene. Actually, we should probably make this a separate line so it can be accessed.

Not quite sure what "Massif" means in gun terminology....but it's used in a couple of catalogs and seems to refer to the water-table area or perhaps to the chamber area. I wonder since Massif usually refers to an upwelling of the earth (Massif Central)..whether they were referring to the big end of the barrels...the chamber end?.

Lovely effort on all fronts there Argo & Crazy Bull/B�tail sauvage(BS). I assume Culasse is the Breech so how does the definition of Massif differ from Culasse? Also, any stabs for the term Standing Breech?

Canon frette: sleeved tubes

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Here is an updated with addition and deletions.
Massif is an adjective in most cases. I think it was taken out of context. I removed it.
Culasse is standing breech.

Acier - steel
Acier damas (also "damas") - damascus steel
Acier tremp� - quenched steel
Acier revenu - tempered steel
Amortisseur - pad (as in buttpad)
Anson et Deeley, Anson- box lock
Arme de poing - hand gun
Arme d��paule - long gun
Armurier - gun shop owner
Armurerie - gun shop, not a maker, historically a body armor vendor
Arquebusier - Gun maker
Artisan - artisan
Avantage (a droite, a gauche) - cast-off, cast-on
Bande - rib
Prolongement de la bande - extension of the rib (to the receiver)
Balle - bullet or slug
Bascule - receiver/action
Bille acier - steel shot
Bois - wood
Bois de noyer - walnut
Noyer blond - blond walnut
Boitier - housing
Bouche - muzzle
Bouchon de percuteur - Firing pin bushing
Bourre - wad
Bretelle - sling
Bretelle a enrouleur - retractable sling (like on a Ideal)
Brisure, a - Breakage
fusil a Broche- pinfire gun
Bronzage - barrel blacking
Busc - comb (for a stock)
Cale - wedge (in a double rifle)
Canon - barrel
Canons frett�s - sleeved barrel set
Canons juxtapos�s - double barrel; SxS
Canons mixtes (Arme a) - cape gun
Canon ray� - rifled barrel
Canons superpos�s - over/under
Canon monobloc - Barrels made in one block of steel
Canon lisse - smoothbore
Capuche - metal piece surrounding the Deeley forearm pushbutton
Carabine - rifle, carbine
Cartouches � plombs - shot shell
Cartouches � balle - slug shell
Chambre - chamber
Chien - hammer
Chiens ext�rieurs - external hammers
Choke - Choke
Demi choke - Modified choke
Cl� - key
Cl� d�ouverture - top lever key
Cl� sur le dessus - top lever key
Coffret - case (to put the gun in)
Corne - horn
Coquille - action ball
Crochet - barrel hook
Crochet du canon - same
Crochet encastr� - dovetailed lump
Crosse - stock
Crosse anglaise - English stock
Crosse � joue - stock with cheek piece
Crosse demi-pistolet - round knob grip stock
Crosse pistolet - pistol grip stock
Crossier - stock maker
Culasse - standing breech or bolt
Culasse mobile - movable breech (i.e. on a Darne)
Damasquin� - damascened
Demi-coquelle - half cock (for hammer guns) (???)
Demi-bloc - chopper lump
D�tente - trigger
Devant - forearm
Devant a pompe - Deeley pushbutton forearm
Double detente - double tigger
double verrou de fermeture - double locking bolt
Etui - brass (for a cartridge)
�b�ne - ebony
�jecteurs automatiques - automatic ejectors
Extracteur - extractors
�preuves - proof
Express (also double "express") - double rifle
Banc d��preuves - proof house
Double-epreuves - double proofed
�tranglement - choke
(arme a )Feu central- centerfire (gun)
Fermeture en "T" - Jones underlever
Forage - bore (barrel)
Frette - monoblock
Fusil - firearm (normally a shotgun but also a military rifle)
Fusil de chasse - shotgun
Fusil a percussion - muzzle loading, percussion rifle
Fusil a piston - percussion gun
Gachette - sear
Gachette interruptrice - safety sear
Graveur - Engraver
Gravure - engraving
Grenadi�re - sling swivel
Goupille - round pin
Goupille de charni�re - hinge pin
Guidon - front sight
Hausse - back sight
Illisible - illegible
Jaspage - case coloring
Joue - cheekpiece
Juxtapos� - side by side
Levier - Lever
Levier de s�curit� (ou s�curit�) - safety lever
Longuesse - forestock
Longuesse a poussoir - pushrod (forestock with pushrod release)
Monod�tente - single trigger
Moul�(e) - molded
Noix - Hammer axis
Or - gold
Or fin - fine gold
Oreille - Sideclip
Percussion centrale - center percussion, center fire (hammer gun)
Percuteur - Firing pin
Piece d'armurerie - piece of firearms manufacture ???
Piston (Fusil a-) - percussion gun
Planchette - back sight folding leaf
Plaque de couche - butt plate
Platine - side lock
Platine Holland - front lock as made by H&H or others
Platine arri�res - back locks
Platine avant - front locks
Platine encastr�e - embedded locks
Platine d�montable - hand removable sidelock
plomb - lead shot
Poin�on - stamp
Poin�ons r�glementaires - legal stamps
Poin�ons d'�preuve - proof marks
(Crosse) Ponc�e huile - sanded with oil finish (stock)
Pontet - trigger guard
Pontet � volute - trigger guard with volute in front
Port�e - range (as in shooting distance)
Poudre sans fum�e - smokeless powder
Poudre Pyroxyl�e - smokeless powder (French)
Poudre Vive - smokeless Powder ( Belgian)
Poussoir - push rod (forestock)
Quadrillage - Checkering
Quadrilleur - Checkerer
Rallonge de crosse - stock extension
Ray� � chargement par la bouche - muzzle loader rifle
Ressort - spring
Ressort � boudin - Coil spring
S�ret� - safety
St�phanois - from Saint-Etienne region
Tire-cartouche - extracteur
Tirette - action rod
Tonnerre - place where the ignition happen
Type anglais - English style
Verrou - lock, also bolt
Verrou de fermeture - closing lock
Verrou vertical - rising bite
Verrouillage - locking system
Vis - Screw

Thanks to all on these efforts. What a valuable resource for us one language folks. Daryl

Gentlemen, Your diligence and generosity with your time in translating all of this information is appreciated immensely by me. I would never have been able to do this sort of thing on my own, even with Internet translation. I know, because I tried several days ago. I did sent V-C an email and hope they take pity on an old Carolina boy, but I believe I saw somewhere that they had lost their records in a flood years ago. Anyway, the gun is super quality,but will require some work to get it back right,i.e. barrel reblue and one ejector leaf spring is broken. But these are relatively minor issues, and should not be hard to fix.When I get it all back together, I'll post some pictures. Best regards, Sandlapper