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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Thank you Argo for your willingness to help. I believe I will write to V-C and see what I can find out, and yes, a translation of the catalog description would be most helpful. Do you think T3 could possibly be the S/N? I don't know how many of these they built but it couldn't have been too many.T3 is the only mark that is on all three components of this gun. Assembly no. possibly? Regards,Sandlapper
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Sand, I'm making progress on the translation - nothing much to help you so far in dating your Heliduplex except perhaps the date of the adoption of "Vercar" as a Verney-Carron trademark - 1930? first, here are a few French gun/shotgun terms that I picked up reading French gun ads that might help along the way - more to follow: (Larry, Raimey, etc. - please correct any that are wrong) (I've left off the articles - le or la...to allow easier use):
Anson et Deeley - box lock Armes de poing - hand guns Armes d’epaule - long guns Armurerie - armory, gun shop Artisan - artisan Bande - rib Prolongement de la band - extension of the rib (to the receiver) Bascule - receiver Bois - wood Bois de noyer - walnut Noyer blonde - blond walnut Boitier - housing Brisure, a - top break, center break fire arm Broche type - pinfire Canon - barrel Canons juxtaposé - double barrel; SxS Canon raye - rifled barrel Canons superposés - over/under Canon lisse - smoothbore Cartouches à plombs - shot shell Cartouches à balle - slug Charnière - hinge, pivot Chien - hammer Chiens extérieurs - external hammers Cle top; Cle a top - top lever key Clé d’ouverture top lever - top lever key Clé sur le dessu - top lever key Corne - horn (as for butt plate material) Crochet - lock or hook Crochet du canon - barrel lock Crosse - stock Crosse anglais - English stock Crosse à joue - stock with cheek piece Crosse pistole - pistol grip stock Culasse - gun bolt Damasquinée - damascened Demi-coquelle - half cock (for hammer guns) Detente - trigger Devant - forestock Double detente - double tigger double verrou de fermeture - double locking bolt éjecteurs automatiques - automatic ejectors Epreuves - proof Banc d’épreuves - proof house Double-epreuves - double proofed étranglement - choke Feu centre - centerfire Forage - bore (barrel) Fusil - rifle/firearm Fusil de chasse - shotgun Fusil a percussion - muzzle loading, percussion rifle Gachette - trigger Gachette interruptrice - trigger safety Gravure - engraving Goupille - pin Goupille de charnière - hinge pin Illisible - illegible Juxtaposé - side-by-side Levier de sécurité - safety lever Longuesse - forestock Longuesse a poussoir - pushrod (forestock with pushrod release) Massif - water table..holds the barrel locks Moulée - molded Or - gold Or fin - fine gold Percussion central - center percussion, center fire (hammer gun) Piece d'armurerie - piece of firearms manufacture Plaque de couche - butt plate Platine - side lock Platine arrières - back side-locks Platine en avant - front side-locks Platine encastre - embedded side-locks Poinçons - stamp (proof stamp) Poinçons réglementaires - legal stamps Pontet - trigger guard Pontet à volutes - trigger guard with volutes Poudres sans fumée - smokeless powder Poussoir - push rod (forestock) Rallonge de crosse - stock extension Rayés à chargement par la bouche - muzzle loader Ressort - spring Sûreté - safety Stephanois - from Saint-Etienne region Type anglais - English style Verrou - lock Verrou de fermeture - closing lock Verrouillage - locking system
Last edited by Argo44; 05/13/17 10:46 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,164 Likes: 319 |
translation of the right page (Heliduplex model 641) - French in blue. Hammerless - hammerless Heliduplex - trademark lock Platine démontables. removeable side-plates Ejectors automatic - automatic ejectors Succursales - sale rooms CANON - barrel INTEGRALBLOC - VC trade name for combining barrels and barrel rib extension and barrel locks TREMPE. - tempered Veritables platines démontables - true removable side-plates HELIDUPLEX No 641, a ejecteur automatique, Fusil Hammerless a platines démontablesHELIDUPLEX model number 641 with automatic ejectors; Hammerless gun with removable side-plates. Canons Integralbloc (see pages 10, 11 and 12).Integralbloc barrels (VC trademark process where-by the barrel locks and are cast onto each barrel then welded together - I’ll translate that separately) Quality special extra-supérieure trempée marque Vercar.Special quality extra-superior tempered barrels of the mark “Vercar.” Demichoke a droite. choke plein a gauche.Modified (1/2) choke on the right; full choke on the left Forage perfection avec polissage intérieur Longitudinal. Perfect bores with longitudinally polished interiors Bande striée décroissante avec prolongement s’encastrant dans la bascule.Straight unvarying rib with the prolongation imbedded in the receiver. Fermature a double Helice, système brevets. Patented Double Helice closing system. Piece de bascule en acier au creuset, marque Acier Diamant. Receiver made in “Acier Diamant” compressed steel. (see catalog description of the process) Platines démontables avec gachettes Interruptrices.Disassembleable sidelocks with sear safeties. Éjecteur automatique. Automatic ejectors. Devant de bois remontant a poussoir. Wooden fore-stock removed by push lever. Poignet et devant quadrilles.Pistol grip and fore-stock checkered in the Quadrilles system. Mecanisme de sûreté paralysant a volonte l’action des detentes.Safety mechanism which prevents the movement of the trigger. Epreuve poudre T. Proofed for “T” powder. (Larry can describe what this means) Ciselures aux coquilles et gravures artistique sure les piece…. 8,400 FrShell embossed and artistic engraving on the piece Perfection est le seul qualificatif qui convienne a ce modele qui “classe” son possesseur, a la chasse come au tir aux pigeonsProfection is the only term which is appropriate for this model which shows the “class” of it’s owner whether during the hunt or during pigeon shoots
Last edited by Argo44; 05/16/17 04:05 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,164 Likes: 319
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,164 Likes: 319 |
"The water table has the no. 884,along with T3,the VC trademark,and Acier Diamont. The barrels have on the flats the words Trempe, verney-carron integralbloc, Vercar stamp and 7."
I'm inclined to believe 884 is the SN. T3 may be a VC mark for "tempered" (trempe). Trempe and integral bloc are explained in the catalog and addressed above. 70 should be 2 3/4.
Vercar as I understand it was adopted by VC as a trademark around 1930...not sure of this but it can be researched further. VC should know about the SN.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 534
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 534 |
Argo, please let me correct some mistakes and add quite a few more. best regards, WC-
Acier - steel Acier damas (also "damas") - damascus steel Acier trempé - quenched steel Acier revenu - tempered steel Anson et Deeley, Anson- box lock Arme de poing - hand gun Arme d’épaule - long gun Armurier - gun shop owner Armurerie - gun shop, not a maker, historically a body armor vendor Arquebusier - Gun maker Artisan - artisan Avantage (a droite, a gauche) - cast-off, cast-on Bande - rib Prolongement de la bande - extension of the rib (to the receiver) Balle - bullet or slug Bascule - receiver/action Bille acier - steel shot Bois - wood Bois de noyer - walnut Noyer blond - blond walnut Boitier - housing Bouche - muzzle Bouchon de percuteur - Firing pin bushing Bourre - wad Brisure, a - top break, center break fire arm ??? fusil a Broche- pinfire gun Bronzage - barrel blacking Busc - comb (for a stock) Cale - wedge (in a double rifle) Canon - barrel Canons juxtaposés - double barrel; SxS Canon rayé - rifled barrel Canons superposés - over/under Canon lisse - smoothbore Carabine - rifle, carbine Cartouches à plombs - shot shell Cartouches à balle - slug shell Chambre - chamber Chien - hammer Chiens extérieurs - external hammers Choke - Choke Demi choke - Modified choke Clé - key Clé d’ouverture - top lever key Clé sur le dessus - top lever key Coffret - case (to put the gun in) Corne - horn Crochet - barrel hook Crochet du canon - same Crochet encastré - dovetailed lump Crosse - stock Crosse anglais - English stock Crosse à joue - stock with cheek piece Crosse demi-pistolet - round knob grip stock Crosse pistolet - pistol grip stock Crossier - stock maker Culasse - gun bolt Damasquiné - damascened Demi-coquelle - half cock (for hammer guns) (???) Demi-bloc - chopper lump Détente - trigger Devant - forearm Double detente - double tigger double verrou de fermeture - double locking bolt Etui - brass (for a cartridge) Ébène - ebony éjecteurs automatiques - automatic ejectors Extracteur - extractors Épreuves - proof Express (also double "express") - double rifle Banc d’épreuves - proof house Double-epreuves - double proofed étranglement - choke (arme a )Feu central- centerfire (gun) Fermeture en "T" - Jones underlever Forage - bore (barrel) Fusil - firearm (normally a shotgun except but also military rifle) Fusil de chasse - shotgun Fusil a percussion - muzzle loading, percussion rifle Fusil a piston - percussion gun Gachette - sear Gachette interruptrice - safety sear Graveur - Engraver Gravure - engraving Grenadière - sling swivel Goupille - round pin Goupille de charnière - hinge pin Guidon - front sight Hausse - back sight Illisible - illegible Jaspage - case coloring Juxtaposé - side-by-side Levier - Lever Levier de sécurité (ou sécurité) - safety lever Longuesse - forestock Longuesse a poussoir - pushrod (forestock with pushrod release) Massif - water table..holds the barrel locks I don't agree with that Moulé(e) - molded Noix - Hammer axis Or - gold Or fin - fine gold Oreille - Sideclip Percussion centrale - center percussion, center fire (hammer gun) Percuteur - Firing pin Piece d'armurerie - piece of firearms manufacture ??? Piston (Fusil a-) - percussion gun Planchette - back sight folding leaf Plaque de couche - butt plate Platine - side lock Platine Holland - front lock as made by H&H or others Platine arrières - back locks Platine avant - front locks Platine encastrée - embedded locks Platine démontable - hand removable sidelock plomb - lead shot Poinçon - stamp Poinçons réglementaires - legal stamps Poinçons d'épreuve - proof marks (Crosse) Poncée huile - sanded with oil finish (stock) Pontet - trigger guard Pontet à volute - trigger guard with volute in front Portée - range (as in shooting distance) Poudre sans fumée - smokeless powder Poudre Pyroxylée - smokeless powder (French) Poudre Vive - smokeless Powder ( Belgian) Poussoir - push rod (forestock) Quadrillage - Checkering Quadrilleur - Checkerer Rallonge de crosse - stock extension Rayé à chargement par la bouche - muzzle loader rifle Ressort - spring Ressort à boudin - Coil spring Sûreté - safety Stéphanois - from Saint-Etienne region Tirette - action rod Tonnerre - action ball Type anglais - English style Verrou - lock Verrou de fermeture - closing lock Verrou vertical - rising bite Verrouillage - locking system Vis - Screw
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,164 Likes: 319
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,164 Likes: 319 |
Thanks WC...I'm still learning gun terminology and hoped some of you would intervene. Actually, we should probably make this a separate line so it can be accessed.
Not quite sure what "Massif" means in gun terminology....but it's used in a couple of catalogs and seems to refer to the water-table area or perhaps to the chamber area. I wonder since Massif usually refers to an upwelling of the earth (Massif Central)..whether they were referring to the big end of the barrels...the chamber end?.
Last edited by Argo44; 05/14/17 01:53 AM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,814 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,814 Likes: 194 |
Lovely effort on all fronts there Argo & Crazy Bull/Bétail sauvage(BS). I assume Culasse is the Breech so how does the definition of Massif differ from Culasse? Also, any stabs for the term Standing Breech?
Canon frette: sleeved tubes
Cheers,
Raimey rse
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 534
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 534 |
Here is an updated with addition and deletions. Massif is an adjective in most cases. I think it was taken out of context. I removed it. Culasse is standing breech.
Acier - steel Acier damas (also "damas") - damascus steel Acier trempé - quenched steel Acier revenu - tempered steel Amortisseur - pad (as in buttpad) Anson et Deeley, Anson- box lock Arme de poing - hand gun Arme d’épaule - long gun Armurier - gun shop owner Armurerie - gun shop, not a maker, historically a body armor vendor Arquebusier - Gun maker Artisan - artisan Avantage (a droite, a gauche) - cast-off, cast-on Bande - rib Prolongement de la bande - extension of the rib (to the receiver) Balle - bullet or slug Bascule - receiver/action Bille acier - steel shot Bois - wood Bois de noyer - walnut Noyer blond - blond walnut Boitier - housing Bouche - muzzle Bouchon de percuteur - Firing pin bushing Bourre - wad Bretelle - sling Bretelle a enrouleur - retractable sling (like on a Ideal) Brisure, a - Breakage fusil a Broche- pinfire gun Bronzage - barrel blacking Busc - comb (for a stock) Cale - wedge (in a double rifle) Canon - barrel Canons frettés - sleeved barrel set Canons juxtaposés - double barrel; SxS Canons mixtes (Arme a) - cape gun Canon rayé - rifled barrel Canons superposés - over/under Canon monobloc - Barrels made in one block of steel Canon lisse - smoothbore Capuche - metal piece surrounding the Deeley forearm pushbutton Carabine - rifle, carbine Cartouches à plombs - shot shell Cartouches à balle - slug shell Chambre - chamber Chien - hammer Chiens extérieurs - external hammers Choke - Choke Demi choke - Modified choke Clé - key Clé d’ouverture - top lever key Clé sur le dessus - top lever key Coffret - case (to put the gun in) Corne - horn Coquille - action ball Crochet - barrel hook Crochet du canon - same Crochet encastré - dovetailed lump Crosse - stock Crosse anglaise - English stock Crosse à joue - stock with cheek piece Crosse demi-pistolet - round knob grip stock Crosse pistolet - pistol grip stock Crossier - stock maker Culasse - standing breech or bolt Culasse mobile - movable breech (i.e. on a Darne) Damasquiné - damascened Demi-coquelle - half cock (for hammer guns) (???) Demi-bloc - chopper lump Détente - trigger Devant - forearm Devant a pompe - Deeley pushbutton forearm Double detente - double tigger double verrou de fermeture - double locking bolt Etui - brass (for a cartridge) Ébène - ebony éjecteurs automatiques - automatic ejectors Extracteur - extractors Épreuves - proof Express (also double "express") - double rifle Banc d’épreuves - proof house Double-epreuves - double proofed étranglement - choke (arme a )Feu central- centerfire (gun) Fermeture en "T" - Jones underlever Forage - bore (barrel) Frette - monoblock Fusil - firearm (normally a shotgun but also a military rifle) Fusil de chasse - shotgun Fusil a percussion - muzzle loading, percussion rifle Fusil a piston - percussion gun Gachette - sear Gachette interruptrice - safety sear Graveur - Engraver Gravure - engraving Grenadière - sling swivel Goupille - round pin Goupille de charnière - hinge pin Guidon - front sight Hausse - back sight Illisible - illegible Jaspage - case coloring Joue - cheekpiece Juxtaposé - side by side Levier - Lever Levier de sécurité (ou sécurité) - safety lever Longuesse - forestock Longuesse a poussoir - pushrod (forestock with pushrod release) Monodétente - single trigger Moulé(e) - molded Noix - Hammer axis Or - gold Or fin - fine gold Oreille - Sideclip Percussion centrale - center percussion, center fire (hammer gun) Percuteur - Firing pin Piece d'armurerie - piece of firearms manufacture ??? Piston (Fusil a-) - percussion gun Planchette - back sight folding leaf Plaque de couche - butt plate Platine - side lock Platine Holland - front lock as made by H&H or others Platine arrières - back locks Platine avant - front locks Platine encastrée - embedded locks Platine démontable - hand removable sidelock plomb - lead shot Poinçon - stamp Poinçons réglementaires - legal stamps Poinçons d'épreuve - proof marks (Crosse) Poncée huile - sanded with oil finish (stock) Pontet - trigger guard Pontet à volute - trigger guard with volute in front Portée - range (as in shooting distance) Poudre sans fumée - smokeless powder Poudre Pyroxylée - smokeless powder (French) Poudre Vive - smokeless Powder ( Belgian) Poussoir - push rod (forestock) Quadrillage - Checkering Quadrilleur - Checkerer Rallonge de crosse - stock extension Rayé à chargement par la bouche - muzzle loader rifle Ressort - spring Ressort à boudin - Coil spring Sûreté - safety Stéphanois - from Saint-Etienne region Tire-cartouche - extracteur Tirette - action rod Tonnerre - place where the ignition happen Type anglais - English style Verrou - lock, also bolt Verrou de fermeture - closing lock Verrou vertical - rising bite Verrouillage - locking system Vis - Screw
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Thanks to all on these efforts. What a valuable resource for us one language folks. Daryl
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 358 Likes: 23 |
Gentlemen, Your diligence and generosity with your time in translating all of this information is appreciated immensely by me. I would never have been able to do this sort of thing on my own, even with Internet translation. I know, because I tried several days ago. I did sent V-C an email and hope they take pity on an old Carolina boy, but I believe I saw somewhere that they had lost their records in a flood years ago. Anyway, the gun is super quality,but will require some work to get it back right,i.e. barrel reblue and one ejector leaf spring is broken. But these are relatively minor issues, and should not be hard to fix.When I get it all back together, I'll post some pictures. Best regards, Sandlapper
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