doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hollenbeck drilling:12guage over .25-25 Stevens

ginge I cringe if that gun has 3" chambers DO NOT put modern 3" magnum loads in it.
I would even go as far myself, to not put any modern factory loaded high speed & pressure 12g 2 3/4 loads through it.
Do we know the chokes on the 12g barrels ?
O.M

Everything about this makes me cringe. I have spent a lot of time loading for my 25-35 hollenbeck and less time with my 30-30 and 32-40. ALL SIGNS POINT TO DO NOT OVERLOAD. What I would have considered 70% loads in the 25-35
Caused case deformity, rough extraction, deformed rims, and damaged case necks. Also the chamber on that gun requires a very short OAL such that modern (1960s) factory loads will not close in the gun (117 gr bullets).
On the shotgun side I wouldn't put ANY heavy, magnum, or otherwise big load in it and I am referring to 2 3/4in 1 5/8 oz type loads. 3in is totally out of the question in any form.
I do not consider myself extreme or overly cautious. But I error to the side of caution

For the 12 gauge I would use
http://www.rstshells.com/store/p/20-12-Ga-2-3/4-Lite-Vel-1150-1-oz-Load-Case.aspx
#5s for squirrels

And 25-25 Stevens with unique (very clean burning) in the rifle barrel.

Mike

p.s. remember the 12 gauge of that day were NOT magnums or even extreme performance, use the gun as intended and enjoy yesteryear, what fun, what fun

Listen to skeetx. The 3" shotshell wasnt introduced until 1923 and in only some heavily costucted heavy waterfowl guns. Odds are your shotgun has 2 5/8" chambers. The RST loads are about perfect for that age of shotgun.

Again this is an old cartridge for small game, very good for turkey with the original cast bullet loads. While 3031 is considered a fast powder for modern deer cartridges it is again too slow the old 25-25.

Reloading dies can be found used on ebay but it might be a long wait, for new i would look to C&H4d, great company to deal with for the old ones. Buffalo arms usually has C&H dies for most older cartridges. COTW might have some data for reloading.

Remember you are dealing with a firearm that is over 100 years old, treat it kindly .

I copied this from the American Single Shot Rifle Association site:
"Few years back, I picked up a couple of original rifles, a .40-70 Remington rolling block..with English proofs, and a No.2 Ballard in .25-25 Stevens. I had heard good things about a then new to me black powder called Swiss. And since I had sense enough by that time to only use black in these antiques, I tried it. 1st. time out with the Remington, and 1 1/2 Swiss I shot a 1" group at 100yds...it ain't supposed to be that easy..and I was hooked. The little .25-25 likes 3FG Swiss...3/8" groups at 50yds. with 100gr. Ideal 25720. I must confess..I did try a light smokeless load in this rifle..and the accuracy wasn't there..and neither was the deep boom all out of proportion to it's size..and that greyish white smoke screen blotting out the target for an instant..it just wasn't as fun!"

That accuracy should collect a turkey!

This was the introduction of what we know today as the "Magnum" loading. 3" shells existed from back in the 1800's but they were not loaded particularly heavier. They had allowed for a better wad column with bulky powders such as either Black or Bulk Smokeless, both of which were the most commonly reloaded powders. About the maximum load for the day was 3� to 3� drams or equivalent powder with 1�oz shot.

Actually, the SAAMI specifications call for the same pressure for the 3" and 2 3/4" twelve gauge, so the gun isn't likely to fly apart with the use of the longer shell, but I suspect that the barrels may be Damascus and not even suitable for modern 2 3/4" ammo. As far as an insert in one of the shotgun barrels. The problem will be the firing pins being too large in diameter for the pressures involved. The primers will flow back into the firing pin holes and lock the gun up, and could even perforate, dumping high pressure into the action and head of the stock.
If this were my gun, I would limit its use to small game and varmints within its capabilities.

ginge,
Since you have the 16ga X 7x57R drilling with Einstecklauf, that is the one you should hunt deer with. If you insist on a chamber insert for the Hollenbeck, I recommend .357 mag. and usually use 38 special. You can buy( if you have enough time and money)an insert barrel( Einstecklauf)for full caliber cartridges, such as 308 ( incl. 7x57r). The makers of these, however, won't generally install one over 6.5mm in a drilling (there are exceptions for "strong" drillings-their choice). Plus there would be an extra charge for installing a bushed firing pin. Larger caliber Einstecklaufs are usually reserved for O/U guns, which are considered stronger.
Where were you stationed in Germany? I left there, the last time, in early 82. Did you hunt in Germany? I taught the hunting course at the R&G Club at Kitzingen/am Main, through 1981.
War Eagle.
Mike

Listen to skeetx. The 3" shotshell wasnt introduced until 1923 and in only some heavily costucted heavy waterfowl guns. Odds are your shotgun has 2 5/8" chambers. The RST loads are about perfect for that age of shotgun.

Again this is an old cartridge for small game, very good for turkey with the original cast bullet loads. While 3031 is considered a fast powder for modern deer cartridges it is again too slow the old 25-25.

Reloading dies can be found used on ebay but it might be a long wait, for new i would look to C&H4d, great company to deal with for the old ones. Buffalo arms usually has C&H dies for most older cartridges. COTW might have some data for reloading.

Remember you are dealing with a firearm that is over 100 years old, treat it kindly .

Ginge, you stated that the Hollenbeck was originally chambered for 30-30 WCF. Was it then changed to 25-25 Stevens? Sorry, maybe I missed something. Are the shotgun barrels Krupp Steel or Damascus? Thnx