doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Swamped ribs

"Plume" carries over into other languages as well. In 2003, in Cordoba, Argentina, I was with a couple buddies who were shooting doves together. They both shot a close incomer at the same exact time and the bird boy shouted "La pluma!" as the feathers floated in the breeze.

SRH

When I see a swamped rib, it usually resides on a French double. They seem to make the bead "float" and I have one that smokes clays with ultra full chokes, but that is probably a matter of fit...

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the construction of Ideal barrels, as I believe Shotgunlover aptly noted, is as an I beam, with one central rib. Then there is what I call a front bead ramp, and then at the breech the plume. The plume is not, I believe, a sighting ramp, but rather La Manu's design for the doll's head, since that would simply be the extension of the top rib on other guns. In fact, very early production Ideals had top ribs, some with doll's head and some of the oldest with none. The doll's head extension ramp has to have enough length for sufficient contact area on the barrels, and of course it tapers as the radius of the barrels is approached. Thus it looks like a small bird feather, and is appropriately called le plume. Indeed, most Ideals have it engraved in a feather motif.

So then the question is, does the Ideal have a swamped rib as Ted has helped to clarify? As it has only a central, single rib that does not rise or fall with relation to the center of the barrels, with ramps- not full ribs- muzzle and breech, I think the answer would be non. But, if by "swamped" you include "sunken" or recessed...

Evidently, the term "swamped" has been around for a really long time, in relation to guns. The first use I ever knew of was in regards to flintlock longrifle barrels. When draw filed to final shape they are/were tapered, octagonal, from the breech end towards the muzzle to a point roughly one foot back from the muzzle, at which point they gradually taper back larger toward the muzzle. It added elegance to barrel and more importantly lost some weight which made offhand shooting easier.

SRH

Anything I know about Ideals (and, that isn't much) I picked up trying to learn more about Darnes. I have handled and shot enough Ideals that I know they simply aren't my cup of tea, but, I acknowledge that there are people who are thrilled with them.
A good friend owns a 16 that is everything an Ideal should be, nicely engraved, retractable sling, skip line checkering, perhaps 95% original condition.
Neither of us can hit anything with it. I seem to remember the chokes were beyond tight, and the chambers short. We both shoot his well worn Costo much, much, better. Both guns have swamped ribs, for what it is worth.
I'm pretty sure the Costo was also a Manufrance product, but, it is a far more conventional, and, pedestrian gun than an Ideal.
I love a Darne, of any grade, that fits me, and have owned literally dozens over the years. But, I also believe there is some truth to the old saw "Beware the man with one gun" and I'm not likely to struggle with a bunch of different designs of bird guns. I own a couple of autoloading 12s that haven't been touched in years.
They aren't my preference. I can manage a pump, usually. I ran one often as a younger man, and the lessons are still there.
I'm not looking for any more guns, but, I wouldn't mind being a better shot with the ones I have. There is always room for improvement on my score sheets, and I work on that more than anything else, with the hope my wingshooting skill rides up as well.
What rib I use between the guns I own, hasn't seemed to be a factor in my progress, unless, I am thinking about it at the shot.
Then, I miss.
So, I try, hard, not to think about anything, save the bird, at the shot, clay or otherwise.


Best,
Ted

"La plume de ma tante" is a well-known expression from French teaching, as it was done many moons ago: How to express possession. The French don't have our very handy 's to stick on the end of a word. So that's the only way to say "My aunt's pen"--"plume", in that case, going back to the time when one wrote with a quill.

Returning to shotguns and ribs, I'd suggest that "the world's best shooters" are a group determined by which ones break the most targets. And in most target shooting disciplines, the shooter is allowed to mount his gun before calling for the target. A raised rib simply gives him a more reliable reference point to tell him he has it in the right place than would no (visible) rib and just a front bead.

For the upland hunter, on the other hand, a rib adds weight. If you're walking and carrying a whole lot more than you're mounting and shooting, the weight saved by not having a rib, or having less of one, can make a difference. Probably worth noting here that you're not likely to see many swamped rib guns used by driven shooters. (These days, of course, many driven shooters are carrying those modern contraptions with barrels superposed rather than juxtaposed.) About the most "minimalist" rib you're likely to see on a gun at a driven shoot would be the Churchill variety, which extends the full length of the barrel but which narrows down very quickly from a wide start at the breech. They may not want extremely heavy guns (unless they're shooting extremely high birds), but they're not as concerned with weight as, say, someone out for a rough shooting day.

The world's best shooters left juxtaposed barreled guns a long, long, time ago. What they shoot, today, bears about as much relevance to our SXS guns, and the ribs they wear, as the Apollo moon landings would to a future Mars landing.
They both use propellent. That, is about it.

Best,
Ted

I don't know whether the best shooters left sxs, or whether sxs left the best shooters. Production really took a tumble in this country post-WWII, at which point autos and pumps were the guns to own. OU's didn't really surge in popularity until the Japanese guns started showing up in the 60's. Reliable, and far less expensive than the Belgian Superposeds, which were about the only very popular OU's up to that point. With the American sxs industry dead--and they had all made target guns, both trap and skeet, prior to WWII--it came down to a foreign sxs or OU if you wanted a 2 barrel field gun. But they also offered OU target models, which was not the case in the foreign sxs guns. More than anything, I think everyone in the States forgot that sxs had competed well in the target games prior to the war. Seeing some now again, from SKB for example, but for the very narrow niche market of the sxs competitions.

I don't believe that the new Perrazi double is setting records for sales, or, scores, Larry.
For whatever reason, the guys who do the best shooting, seem to shoot O/Us and un-singles and whatever, better than they do old style doubles.

I don't claim to know why.

Best,
Ted

I can shoot a S x S to within about 4 or 5 birds out of a hundred compared to what I can shoot with my MX8, on a medium to high difficulty course. I'll believe until I die that there is an advantage to the O/U for tougher targets, but like Ted I don't claim to know why.

Soft targets ....... I can shoot the S x S just as well.

SRH